on PolicyMic
Carl Vincent If they're nonsense, the problem is on your side, not mine. A drain-pipe isn't bad because water goes through it, that's its JOB. It's bad because it's poorly built. Orphanages are not bad due to orphans, that's what they're DESIGNED for. Their management is to blame. You REALLY want to blame a forest fire on the presence of wood rather than the actual flame? Correlation and causality are different things.
Carl Vincent Read and understand my comment before actually trying to argue against it. Are you suggesting women and men are mindlessly incapable of using either protection or controlling their libidos? You follow with the suggestion is that anti-abortion laws cause women to get un-orthodox abortions, as if it was an inevitability that they do this and not a choice. Romania and it's orphanages were a horrible place because it was under the sway of a communist demagogue who ran roughshod with the state for his own cult of personality.
Carl Vincent In short, "Hooray!"
Carl Vincent Saying your point is undeniable doesn't make it so. It's not a trivia contest, you're right. It's about knowing and understanding the facts. If you wish to interpret my critique of the internal logic and presumptions of your article as "rudeness" then that is your prerogative.
Carl Vincent That was a red herring; that statement neither attacked my point nor defended your own. To be frank, if you make an assertion, be prepared to back it up. Sophistry might work when you're alone on stage, but this is a forum and it is unbecoming to get sour when challenged. Your interpretation of history is wrong . You've blamed the heat on the clock hands rather than the sun.
Carl Vincent Am I supposed to be devastated by your observation that I think brutal mass-murdering megalomaniacs are less deserving of life than purely innocent life that has yet to even see the world? I was pretty clear, wasn't I? That said, what your Romanian example showed is that a communist police state does not work. Correlation is not causation.
Carl Vincent Didn't you read her title?
Carl Vincent I was thinking, and the the Romanian example cited is completely absurd. Romania, the "chilling effects" were not due to anti-abortion laws. Romania was a communist police-state with a poorly controlled economy. The orphanages were appalling not because of the children but because of the state that ran them. That's like blaming the students for having a poor teacher. Ceausescu was dragged into the yard and shot for a damn good reason.
Carl Vincent Hooray!
Carl Vincent So, Carmen, if I get this straight...you say there are people who believe this is murder but NOT a big enough deal to have a problem with it? You're describing someone who is a sociopath.
Carl Vincent Why does no one seem to think that when two consenting adults decide to engage in an activity that may produce a child... that a choice is being made? Why is the only choice "after" a child has been conceived? Am I missing something here? The very premise of this whole position is ignoring the choice of people when they decide to have sex!
Carl Vincent That's exactly my point. People shouldn't just feel, they should understand.
Carl Vincent My problem is that the video is a wash of self-congratulatory narcissism that almost completely bypasses the actual subject of Kony. The author's presumption of saying, "this video is an experiment," almost made me ill, as if he was the first to think of using youtube for a cause. Frontline's Ghosts of Rwanda was a heart-wrenching and powerful peace that compels you through the horror of facts, not a vague sense of self-satisfaction at "changing the world." The video is a travesty that, rather than concentrating on the horrors on the ground, harkens to a superficial sense of self-actualization.
Carl Vincent I assure you, that was the highest of compliments. The Economist is my journalism standard of excellence.
Carl Vincent I'm going to the pawn shop to grab some GI-Joes and a Batmobile. It sounds like these guys need some backup.
Carl Vincent Dan, why are you here and not at The Economist?
Carl Vincent No, that was still part of the response. The hypothetical poster was claiming anyone who agrees with this article is a sheep. I'm pretty sure the slew of angry detraction below alread shows that point.
Carl Vincent Vague assertion followed by baseless statement with enigmatic qualification. Ad hominum attack. Misleading hyperbole. Aggrandizing closing remark. Yeah! Take that, sheep who agree with this article! Just to be clear, that's not my assessment of the article. It's my predictive assessment of how most of the responses will probably run.
Carl Vincent It's not directed at anything. It's a knee-jerk reaction.
Carl Vincent Haha, I know about stuff white people like. I was being partially facetious.
Carl Vincent Who says only males like cyber-security, doodling, the sound of the universe, and the Defense Chief of the Netherlands?
Carl Vincent Well said! This is definitely a forest versus trees comment. He definitely is attacking Time, not its readers.
Carl Vincent I say marxist in that most of the US history classes I went through concentrated on changes in our relationship to means of production as the catalyst for social change. If you got through a class on WWII and don't hear "Blitzkrieg" or "Island Hopping", your teacher is failing.
Carl Vincent This is not a failure of military training; the military's job is to train these soldiers as the best fighters they can be to survive and win, not well-rounded students of history. This is a failure of the US education system and its often Marxist view of history. In even AP US History you'd think WWII was defined by huge changes in the labor market, not the massive war being fought against fascism around the world. Honestly, I am not surprised they didn't know the association. I recall once confronting someone I thought had a swastika on their T-shirt. Although I was mistaken, it was an illusion due to a fold of fabric, the kid asked me, "what's a swastika?" Somewhere along the line, a large number of teachers failed these men royally.
Carl Vincent More people know who the Kardashian idiots are than where Afghanistan or Iraq are on a map. More people want to watch the cranked-out talentless goons on "The Jersey Shore" than the news. We're lucky for the dedicated people out there not only willing to put up with us, but to defend us.
on PolicyMic
Carl Vincent If they're nonsense, the problem is on your side, not mine. A drain-pipe isn't bad because water goes through it, that's its JOB. It's bad because it's poorly built. Orphanages are not bad due to orphans, that's what they're DESIGNED for. Their management is to blame. You REALLY want to blame a forest fire on the presence of wood rather than the actual flame? Correlation and causality are different things.
Carl Vincent Read and understand my comment before actually trying to argue against it. Are you suggesting women and men are mindlessly incapable of using either protection or controlling their libidos? You follow with the suggestion is that anti-abortion laws cause women to get un-orthodox abortions, as if it was an inevitability that they do this and not a choice. Romania and it's orphanages were a horrible place because it was under the sway of a communist demagogue who ran roughshod with the state for his own cult of personality.
Carl Vincent In short, "Hooray!"
Carl Vincent Saying your point is undeniable doesn't make it so. It's not a trivia contest, you're right. It's about knowing and understanding the facts. If you wish to interpret my critique of the internal logic and presumptions of your article as "rudeness" then that is your prerogative.
Carl Vincent That was a red herring; that statement neither attacked my point nor defended your own. To be frank, if you make an assertion, be prepared to back it up. Sophistry might work when you're alone on stage, but this is a forum and it is unbecoming to get sour when challenged. Your interpretation of history is wrong . You've blamed the heat on the clock hands rather than the sun.
Carl Vincent Am I supposed to be devastated by your observation that I think brutal mass-murdering megalomaniacs are less deserving of life than purely innocent life that has yet to even see the world? I was pretty clear, wasn't I? That said, what your Romanian example showed is that a communist police state does not work. Correlation is not causation.
Carl Vincent Didn't you read her title?
Carl Vincent I was thinking, and the the Romanian example cited is completely absurd. Romania, the "chilling effects" were not due to anti-abortion laws. Romania was a communist police-state with a poorly controlled economy. The orphanages were appalling not because of the children but because of the state that ran them. That's like blaming the students for having a poor teacher. Ceausescu was dragged into the yard and shot for a damn good reason.
Carl Vincent Hooray!
Carl Vincent So, Carmen, if I get this straight...you say there are people who believe this is murder but NOT a big enough deal to have a problem with it? You're describing someone who is a sociopath.
Carl Vincent Why does no one seem to think that when two consenting adults decide to engage in an activity that may produce a child... that a choice is being made? Why is the only choice "after" a child has been conceived? Am I missing something here? The very premise of this whole position is ignoring the choice of people when they decide to have sex!
Carl Vincent That's exactly my point. People shouldn't just feel, they should understand.
Carl Vincent My problem is that the video is a wash of self-congratulatory narcissism that almost completely bypasses the actual subject of Kony. The author's presumption of saying, "this video is an experiment," almost made me ill, as if he was the first to think of using youtube for a cause. Frontline's Ghosts of Rwanda was a heart-wrenching and powerful peace that compels you through the horror of facts, not a vague sense of self-satisfaction at "changing the world." The video is a travesty that, rather than concentrating on the horrors on the ground, harkens to a superficial sense of self-actualization.
Carl Vincent I assure you, that was the highest of compliments. The Economist is my journalism standard of excellence.
Carl Vincent I'm going to the pawn shop to grab some GI-Joes and a Batmobile. It sounds like these guys need some backup.
Carl Vincent Dan, why are you here and not at The Economist?
Carl Vincent No, that was still part of the response. The hypothetical poster was claiming anyone who agrees with this article is a sheep. I'm pretty sure the slew of angry detraction below alread shows that point.
Carl Vincent Vague assertion followed by baseless statement with enigmatic qualification. Ad hominum attack. Misleading hyperbole. Aggrandizing closing remark. Yeah! Take that, sheep who agree with this article! Just to be clear, that's not my assessment of the article. It's my predictive assessment of how most of the responses will probably run.
Carl Vincent It's not directed at anything. It's a knee-jerk reaction.
Carl Vincent Haha, I know about stuff white people like. I was being partially facetious.
Carl Vincent Who says only males like cyber-security, doodling, the sound of the universe, and the Defense Chief of the Netherlands?
Carl Vincent Well said! This is definitely a forest versus trees comment. He definitely is attacking Time, not its readers.
Carl Vincent I say marxist in that most of the US history classes I went through concentrated on changes in our relationship to means of production as the catalyst for social change. If you got through a class on WWII and don't hear "Blitzkrieg" or "Island Hopping", your teacher is failing.
Carl Vincent This is not a failure of military training; the military's job is to train these soldiers as the best fighters they can be to survive and win, not well-rounded students of history. This is a failure of the US education system and its often Marxist view of history. In even AP US History you'd think WWII was defined by huge changes in the labor market, not the massive war being fought against fascism around the world. Honestly, I am not surprised they didn't know the association. I recall once confronting someone I thought had a swastika on their T-shirt. Although I was mistaken, it was an illusion due to a fold of fabric, the kid asked me, "what's a swastika?" Somewhere along the line, a large number of teachers failed these men royally.
Carl Vincent More people know who the Kardashian idiots are than where Afghanistan or Iraq are on a map. More people want to watch the cranked-out talentless goons on "The Jersey Shore" than the news. We're lucky for the dedicated people out there not only willing to put up with us, but to defend us.