Catholic Universities Like Georgetown Should Provide Students Free Access to Birth Control

268
catholic, universities, like, georgetown, should, provide, students, free, access, to, birth control

Catholic Universities Like Georgetown Should Provide Students Free Access to Birth Control

Contraception is widely used by most women, including 98% of Catholic women. But when the Obama administration announced in late January that all health insurance plans must provide contraception free of charge, some commentators charged that the Obama administration was throwing Catholics under the bus. This rule applies to health insurance that religiously-affiliated colleges and universities provide to students. While many people share the goal of preventing unintended pregnancies, there is strong support on the part of religiously-affiliated institutions for an exemption from the new requirement.

Last month, the Obama administration announced that it will require religious institutions to abide by the rule, and it would give them one year to implement it. The Obama administration made the right decision in requiring health plans to provide contraception to women free of charge.

Most, if not all, colleges and universities offer health insurance to their students. But many Catholic colleges and universities do not provide contraception to students through their health insurance plans. Some women have stopped using contraception because they were not able to afford the co-pays. This is dangerous for women’s health, and the Obama administration should be applauded for helping to meet the health care needs of college women.

Just to be clear, this new rule has nothing to do with abortion. In fact, the new rule will likely decrease abortions by preventing unintended pregnancies in the first place. While some religious groups praised the change, the new rules have riled some religious institutions. One conservative Christian institution has already filed a case against the Obama administration seeking an injunction against the new regulations. Such an injunction would be bad for students, and a sad demonstration of some institutions’ willingness to put ideology ahead of the health and safety of their students. 

While some universities may think that providing access to contraception condones the sexual behavior of its students, not providing women with access to contraception is merely pretending that that college students are not having sex. This is not only demonstrably false, it calls into question the reality in which administrators live. Nearly 80% of college students are sexually active. Colleges and universities cannot expect that their failure to provide their students with contraception will mean that their students simply will not have sex. To turn a blind eye to the students’ lives, and to put a barrier between the students and their ability to protect themselves from unintended pregnancies is destructive.

Georgetown University, a Jesuit institution that has always been more moderate than many Catholic institutions in the United States, has announced that it will comply with the new rule. Fordham University, on the other hand, has told women that it refuses to cover contraception because the use of contraception is out of line with the school’s religious beliefs. It has even balked at providing contraception for students who require it for medical reasons that have nothing to do with sexual intercourse.

In the year that the Pill turned 50, and nearly 50 years since the Supreme Court invalidated a law that prohibited the use of contraception in Griswold v. Connecticut, it is high time women have more complete access to health care that will provide them with the liberty to make choices. Some commentators have argued that the administration should have allowed a religious exemption, that Obama is now in trouble politically with Catholics. This decision may not be good politics in the eyes of some commentators. But it is good policy. Women’s health decisions should be made on the basis of medical merit, not politics.

The Affordable Care Act now makes contraception affordable. This decision is not only good for women’s health, but it encourages college students to make responsible decisions and will help to prevent unintended pregnancies. The Obama administration should be applauded for taking a courageous step in the right direction for women’s health.

Photo Credit: Wikimedia Commons

268

Sign up to join the discussion

Reply to this article
view profile

Zaid A. Zaid

Zaid A. Zaid is lawyer in Washington, DC. Zaid was formerly a political officer in the Foreign Service, serving in Iraq, Egypt, and Tunisia, as w...

Most Mic'd Response

weekly-winner-headshot-fpo

Darwin Long

First let me say that I'm very much pro-choice. This will mark the first time I have ever argued in favor of limiting the choices of women. Having said that, I am forced to disagree with this article. The state has no business telling religious entities what they must do for their congregations. Religious freedom is religious freedom. I've heard it said that in a free country, everyone has the right to be as stupid as they wish. This would qualify as one of those times. If birth control is important to a woman going to college, then by all means she should go to a college that provides it. If she chooses to go to a religious college then she should probably observe the religious tenets they teach. Despite his heart being in the right place, Obama has no business forcing contraception on these colleges. A religious exemption is the right path.

Watch the PolicyMic Video Join PolicyMic

The Discussion

After reading the lengthy discussion, I find 1 argument for this policy that is compelling to me: equal access. If the Catholic hospitals don’t provide contraceptives, it is easier for men to find alternative sources, especially since the pill must be prescribed.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

1 Replies

  • Ian Yamamoto 3 months ago This being said, there are alternat...

This being said, there are alternative means of making access equal without forcing Catholic hospitals to compromise their beliefs. I’ve not yet decided where I stand, but I think the burden is on those who support the policy to show why the correct response is one that compromises beliefs.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

For the sake of argument, what if Congress passed a law saying hospitals and universities could no longer have religious symbols on the premises? No more crucifix in the class room.

Wouldn't the same logic dictate that this would be permissible? If not, why?


  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

12 Replies

  • Lawrence Sampson 3 months ago What if? What if? What if? What if ...

What if? What if? What if? What if monkeys fly out of my butt? What if the right ended its war on women? We can talk about hypotheticals that won't happen all day long but it doesn't change the fact that the country supports this law, Catholics support this law even more than the rest of the country, and its good policy. The church apparatus is wrong and it shouldn't be used to make cheap political points by those who couldn't care less about Catholics.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

11 Replies

  • Susan Kraykowski 3 months ago LOL! That would be something to see...

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago Why am I not surprised you couldn&#...

  • Tracy Adams 2 months ago That's about the dumbest thing...

LOL! That would be something to see, Lawrence!

You ought to know better than to answer Gary when he gets into one of these moods...he'll hypothetical you to death.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

5 Replies

  • Lawrence Sampson 3 months ago But what if......nevermind....

  • Michael Weiss 3 months ago For the sake of argument, what if...

  • Susan Kraykowski 3 months ago Stop it, Michael. Go read my articl...

But what if......nevermind.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!


For the sake of argument, what if the monkeys didn't really have wing?

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Stop it, Michael. Go read my article on slithery statistics.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

It would be as painful as reading ridiculous hypothetical arguments from intelligent people who defend an indefensible argument.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Yes maam.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Why am I not surprised you couldn't answer my hypothetical?

Every law and policy has unintended consequences. As such, a rational, intelligent person would consider those potential consequences when discussing public policy.

If the current position stands, it will no doubt be used as a spring board for further erosion of religious freedom in this country.

The Constitution is a document designed to limit the scope of the federal gov't. We don't just make it up as we go, and hope the gov't doesn't over-reach.

The reason you deride my hypothetical rather than answer it is because you know there would be no logical reason to prohibit such a law, if we adopted your position. You're comfortable relying on the wisdom and benevolence of our elected leaders, present and future. I am not so naive.

The Constitution was carefully crafted to prevent this type of encroachment.

And yes Susan, this topic does put me in a mood. When the gov't tries to force my church to act in a manner directly antithetical to their teachings, I get a little testy.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

3 Replies

  • Lawrence Sampson 3 months ago I answered one ridiculous hypotheti...

  • Ben Poole 3 months ago Under Title VII of the Civil Rights...

  • Tracy Adams 2 months ago Good point, Ben, but most of these ...

I answered one ridiculous hypothetical with another ridiculous hypothetical. The church is not being asked or told to do anything regarding its beliefs or in its existence as a church. As an employer it is being told it is held to the same laws as every other employer. It means people who may work for a religious owned institution don't get that institutions beliefs forced on them. In other words, freedom from religious mandates and freedom of their health care choices. It means women get the health care they deserve and have a right to.

If only the right really did believe in religious freedom and women's rights and health care for all this wouldn't even be an issue.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act of 1964, religion is defined as all aspects of religious observance, practice, and belief. Churches and religious organizations can discriminate on the basis of religion for all jobs. The Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of this in Corporation of the Presiding Bishop of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints v. Amos,483 U.S. 327 (1987). They can also discriminate on the basis of health care. It is permissible for an employer to discriminate on the basis of insurance. "To work here, do you require healthcare coverage that the Church does not support? If so, next applicant please." "To go to school here, do you require healthcare coverage that the Church does not support? Next"

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Good point, Ben, but most of these Obama supporters don't believe in the law or precedent. They want what they want and the Constitution and the rule of law be damned.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

That's about the dumbest thing I've ever heard. Even if 99% of Americans think it is okay for a man to have sex with 6 year olds is not a reason to change the laws that prohibit it. The Catholic Church has a mandate from a higher power than the Obama Admin.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

More to your point about Georgetown University providing no-copay contraceptives, in MA (1 of 28 states that have contraceptive equity laws)

Boston College,
the six former Caritas Christi Catholic hospitals in MA, and other
Catholic organizations

could have self-insured or stopped offering prescription drug coverage to avoid the mandate--but they didn’t.

Instead, they--like many Catholic hospitals and health care insurers around the country--chose to meet the needs of the overwhelming majority of Catholic women and offer these much needed services.

  • Mic this! 3
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

3 Replies

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago Just because some schools have buck...

  • Ben Poole 3 months ago Michael, Are they a Catholic organi...

  • Tracy Adams 2 months ago Yes, but that is a "choice&quo...

Just because some schools have buckled under the pressure doesn't mean all should. They probably didn't self-insure b/c it was cost prohibitive, and simply dropping all prescription drug coverage would hurt everyone else who actually needs their medications.

I know, I know, there are a few women who need birth control pills for health concerns. We've heard it.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Michael, Are they a Catholic organization or are they a non profit Catholic sponsored corporation? There is a difference under the law. Church organizations are exempt due to the First Amendment. Whereas corporations are not. That has already been determined by SCOTUS. So, it is depends upon the structure of the enterprise to determine if it is part of the organization and thus exempted or it is not and thus required to comply. All of these things have been litigated by SCOTUS as to job discrimination. Coverage of insurance has to do with job practices and benefits. ACA will not be held to be required by religious entities that are organizations or "Corporation sole" enterprises.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Yes, but that is a "choice" they made! The government mandating it is a contraception of a different!

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Many people have commented that the RCC should not be "forced" to offer this coverage, and individuals wanting it should look elsewhere. Religious freedom should not beget business ventures that limit reasonable choice. Maybe the Church should avoid it and just get out of the healthcare industry.

  • Mic this! 3
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

8 Replies

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago Let me think about what you're...

Let me think about what you're saying:

You would rather have no Catholic hospitals or universities, than permit them to exist without paying for free contraception. That makes a world of sense. Excellent point.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

7 Replies

  • Giles Herman 3 months ago The RCC denies women the Priesthood...

The RCC denies women the Priesthood. I don't like it, but that is their business in their church. However, if the RCC were to open a hospital and refuse to allow female physicians to practise, then the government would be right to step in. Protections should not be tailored to religious ideology.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

6 Replies

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago You're correct. Why? B/c ther...

  • Giles Herman 3 months ago Then you would suggest that the chu...

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago The church isn't a workplace. ...

You're correct. Why? B/c there is a law against discriminating against women in the workplace, and no plausible religious reason to justify the discrimination.

In the instant matter, the gov't is forcing the Catholic church to actively disobey their own religious tenets. Is that really the kind of country you want to live in?!?

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Then you would suggest that the church is not a workplace and that priests do not work. Should the gov't force the RCC to let women work as priests because of sex discrimination? The law doesn't reach inside the church's walls and the church should not get to extend its reach outside those walls.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

The church isn't a workplace. It's a house of worship.

If Congress passed a law saying every hospital must perform abortions on demand, would you support forcing Catholic hospitals to follow suit?

What if Congress passed a law saying every Ob/gyn had to perform abortion on demand? Would you support forcing Catholic doctors to perform abortions against their religious conviction?

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

You are willing to distinguish between workplaces and places of worship, but it seems that you are arguing that a Catholic hospital is a workplace of worship. The RCC legally discriminates against women in one but can't in the other. No one is asking a person to perform abortions in a church.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Today.

Wouldn't the same logic dicatate that Congress could pass a law forcing all hospitals to provide access to abortion services (including Catholic hospitals)?

Moreover, not paying for someone's birth control pills isn't discrimination. You have no "right" to free birth control pills.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Giles and Gary - The church most certainly can discriminate on the basis of sex if it is against their beliefs. They can discriminate based upon the role. Women working in a Catholic institution cannot be discriminated against because the RCC allows women to work and is ingrained in their practices (Nun's are a prime example.) Women are discriminated upon and this is allowed in the position of Priest because it is a tenet of their beliefs. To argue whether they should or shouldn't is a religious issue.

So, Giles, whether you like it or not laws cannot be tailored to force religious organizations to bend their beliefs in compliance to the law. Whether you take that as tailored to religious ideology or not - the line of separation is there.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

I love how there is this assumption that no one can do anything without the government's approval or at its insistence - or that there is no such thing as a condom or contraceptive foam available at every drug store or grocery store, or if it's just condoms, gas station and bar in America. Oh! And the picture shows the pill, which provides no protection against STDs and can kill some women who take it with blood clots and strokes. The pill, the favorite of guys who don't like condoms, and abortions, favorites of married men and boyfriends who don't want the responsibility of a baby. Like, nobody who works for a Catholic organization could EVER possibly provide themselves with contraception or protection against STDs without the government.

  • Mic this! 4
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

67 Replies

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago Great points all around! Here�...

  • Zaid A. Zaid 3 months ago The point is about paying. That�...

  • Michael Weiss 3 months ago Do you think it's fair that me...

Great points all around!

Here's a link to CVS:

http://www.cvs.com/CVSApp/search/search.jsp?searchTerm=condoms&QP=N%3D92%26Ntk%3DAll%26Nty%3D1%26Ne%3D14%26Ntx%3Dmode+matchallpartial%26Nr%3DOR%7B92%2COR%7B93%7D%2COR%7B90%7D%2COR%7B122%7D%7D%26searchType%3DsearchHome

You can buy a 48 pack of condoms for $11, in other words 22 cents a piece. Go collect a few cans and you'll have that condom in no time.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

33 Replies

  • Amy Sterling Casil 3 months ago LOL! We sometimes read a pro and co...

  • Amy Sterling Casil 3 months ago In other words - "Too scared t...

  • Michael Weiss 3 months ago The RCC forbids the use of condoms!...

LOL! We sometimes read a pro and con debate on condoms in schools in one of the classes I teach. I ask the students straight up - what's the biggest potential consequence of unprotected sex? It can sometimes go over 5 minutes before someone says, "Baby!" Once someone says this, everyone is, "Oh - you're right." I then ask them (because one of the articles mentions a 15 year old kid who has gotten 2 STDs and is too scared to go to the school nurse for a condom) - if this kid is so immature, poor, and cowardly that he can't even man up and buy the 48 pack of condoms - what kind of father will he make? Just like the "woman's right to choose" advocates who ignore that abortion clinic waiting rooms are pretty much full of boyfriends and women.

  • Mic this! 3
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

13 Replies

  • Michael Weiss 3 months ago I agree about your clarion to educa...

  • Amy Sterling Casil 3 months ago Well, as someone moving into that a...

  • Michael Weiss 3 months ago I totally agree that there have to ...

I agree about your clarion to educate people about STIs and reproductive health to both men and women and of all ages. You can't be sure, however, that your safe even in a long-term relationship and/or marriage. Thus the new CDC guidelines to be tested for HIV at lest annually (usually at your annual physical). And the fastest growing group of HIV victims are women over the age of 55. And I can't even count the number of married women who've needed extensive correction from PID related to Clap or syphilis because their partner brought home more than just roses.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Well, as someone moving into that age range (not yet!) and dating, I can sort of see where this problem is coming from, Michael. It's tragic. There are so many things that women overlook or disregard. Most (not all) women are so busy taking care of others, they don't look to their own health and well-being. I don't know a single young women (my family or students) who hasn't faced the "I don't want to use a condom" request at some point, and it's coming to be more talked-about. I've suggested to the younger generation that it could be a good way to determine if the guy is worth being with at all. If he won't take action to protect you and himself, then what is up with that? I'm all for practicality and realism.

  • Mic this! 4
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

I totally agree that there have to be an understanding and I look at it like this: the raincoat can come off when you're both willing to die in each others arms. Otherwise there is no way to know (truthfulness isn't the strong suite of an unfaithful partner) the risk of unprotected sex. The spike in HIV cases is directly related to a perceived invulnerable of the victim and/or a caviler attitude with the new medications that it's no longer a death sentence. Thank God it isn't no longer as debilitating as it once was but once your viral load gets to a certain level, it's medication for the rest of your life. Monitoring and early treatment is important, ergo the CDC testing. BTW, you don't look a day over 30.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

That's brilliant. So when I was there to offer support for a medically necessary termination, you're saying I was wrong? I should have fit your preconceived idea of what, a deadbeat or irresponsible father and been out having a brew? What you just posted was sexist and insulting. If something like that was posted about women you'd be screaming.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

You mean going with a platonic friend to help her? Because if you were the father, and it was a genuine medically-necessary abortion, it would be a very frightening, distressing situation for you and her. There is no "medically necessary" abortion that is generally performed at an abortion clinic that offers elective abortions or the abortion pill. In fact, most procedures that are "medically necessary" aren't abortions at all, they are surgery. Removing a dead fetus is not an abortion, it is a life-saving procedure any OB will do. For example, an ectopic pregnancy is life-threatening, but there is no way to rectify that without surgery. A woman with various pre-existing health conditions who becomes pregnant and cannot safely have the baby

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

is also a situation where genuine medical care is necessary. This can be due to clotting disorders or any number of other health problems where carrying a pregnancy to term is life-threatening. There are very few practitioners who will NOT intercede in these situations. If you are with someone whose mind is so torqued by pregnancy she can't carry on, again, this isn't exactly a happy hand-holding situation. I made a true statement, not a fantasy statement. Most people I know who have had abortions were pressured into it by family (teens and young people) or by boyfriends (often, married men). Maybe they didn't want the baby, either, but they weren't going to get support if they chose to have the baby. Only if they didn't.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Wow its amazing how wrong you are on so many fronts-ignorant, sexist, and judgemental. First I was the father. Second the mother was a nurse, and hospital administrator. Third when the tests which confirmed that the pregnancy which had caused gestational diabetes and serious heart issues would not-could not produce a living baby...as in the baby would not survive, our one and only option was a medically necessary termination. The OB GYN did not offer these. Of course one reason was that by the time the necessary tests could be done-16 weeks, the republican legislature had outlawed abortions for any reason as of that time period. Thanks to the ever present want to control everyone's life Republican Party, we had to go to a different state.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

And the other cool thing about abortions - "I can't take care of the baby so I have no choice but to have an abortion." People make this choice one way or another. It's nothing to be proud of or happy about, and holding someone's hand under those circumstances - well, I suppose it's the decent thing to do, but it's pretty sad when under other circumstances, the baby would be loved and cared-for. Yes, it's much superior to use contraception to avoid all of these bad situations. However, there is no greater responsibility that one's own body, and if you're in a relationship, responsibility and care for each other's health and well-being, as Mr. Weiss and I have discussed. The government cannot take care of that. Only people can.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Wow. Say anything, huh?

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Well as long as you're being stupid, judgemental and sexist, why not?

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Well, Lawrence, it looks like you will fit right in with all the politicians of previous generations. In the words of the sci-fi book cover site, "Good Show, Sir!"

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

I would illustrage just how wrong you are but hey you know what they say about arguing with a pig, so I'll just say thank you.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

I thought people might like to see "Good Show Sir!" - they're not as sharp as they used to be, but you can even see some of the unfortunate author victims commenting (this week, Marta Randall).

This is the cover I first saw that made me aware of their site:
http://www.goodshowsir.co.uk/2011/07/the-little-people/

It almost induced incontinence, a completely different medical problem (as in "I laughed so hard . . .").

And it's not even the top-rated cover! This is:

http://www.goodshowsir.co.uk/2010/04/i-sing-the-body-electric/

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

In other words - "Too scared to tell the school nurse he has burning urination" but not too scared to get two STDs, spread them around to others, and father who knows how many babies that others will either be forced to abort, or care for.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

The RCC forbids the use of condoms!

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

17 Replies

  • Amy Sterling Casil 3 months ago I've dated Catholics, Michael....

  • Michael Weiss 3 months ago I don't doubt that. I was mere...

  • Amy Sterling Casil 3 months ago If the church is humane, then it sh...

I've dated Catholics, Michael. Somehow, it's never been a religious concern whether to use a condom or not.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

I don't doubt that. I was merely pointing out the fact that (Gary, et al.) we're discussing the RCC's dogma about women's contraceptives, Plan B (which as you know is only a three day course of OC), IUDs, etc. and that their proposeed solution is to use condoms. Gary, et al. are ignoring the teaching that men aren't suppose to use condoms or a couple isn't suppose the even use the rhythm method to prevent impregnation. In addition, women may want to use a method for their own reasons, in consultation with her health care provider, to supplement or provide protection outside a consensual relationship, i.e., rape. For forensic reasons, a rapist may wear a condom but they're not always so accommodating.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

If the church is humane, then it should consider all aspects. It has much to consider, as it was a haven for child sex abusers for many years and did not examine these terrible actions of priests against children. To me, it's not about "the right to choose," it's about thinking ahead of time. As to rape, I do know the "no abortion under any circumstances" beliefs, and some women believe in this. There are people walking around today who were born as a result of rape. This speaks to very basic issues of humanity, and I would prefer to see the church make its own decision, rather than having it forced on them. People are also free to not work for the church, and it is not as if healthcare options weren't available elsewhere - they are.

  • Mic this! 3
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Women should be able to determine that for themselves. The ACA 2010 and this ruling that regulates the no co-pay contraceptive equity are not forcing any woman to make a choice or undergo a procedure (even rape)--this isn't a chinese policy. The RCC's claims they don't believe in BC and therefore all it's employees should go by its teachings and dogma. First, CA already has a contraceptive equity law and the RCC has sued to be exempt--CA SC ruled that the RCC org wasn't exempt because they had non-RCC women in their employ. SCOTUS refused cert. Hypothetically, what if you're a non-RCC nurse and the only hospital within 400miles is an RCC hospital and you require OC for PMDD. Why shouldn't they have to provide your meds under the policy?

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

I'm going to jump in here. I agree with both to a certain degree and each has good points. But Amy is closest with "prefer to see the church make its own decisions".

There is a line that is extremely important if any could see it - don't cross the religion boundary. Keep it out of state legislation and government out of anything to go against or for religion. The line is sacrosanct.

It is for everyone's safety when religion brings down government or government commits genocide against religion. This is the history of man. I know we haven't learned. The masses are not educated about contraception, STD's, or even basic human rights and how we must protect them OR religion. Many can only see because its becoming dawn. Some won't & refuse.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Michael, it's a pretty simple distinction. This isn't about whether condoms should be used or birth control in general. This is a discussion about whether the Catholic church should be forced to pay for contraceptions, which is in opposition to firmly held religious beliefs. That is the only issue here.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

It's going really far. It's not as if there aren't other options and it would be much better to allow this decision to be made by those who are paying for the insurance. If this is such a crucial form of care that must be paid for, then what about other treatments that are considered a "right," but are extremely costly? Is the ability to get free birth control pills really such a vastly important right that it has to be mandated to be paid for? How about gender reassignment surgery? Some people feel this is essential to their lives - and I could see these same arguments being made about that.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Plastic surgery is approved by insurers in cases where it's more than "vanity" surgery. Burn victims and people with facial trauma are two of the commonest procedures that are approved by most insurance providers. There is nothing in the ACA 2010 that guarantees the reassignment surgery would be approved but there is a process to appeal your insurance companies decision, if they should deny such surgery that, let's say for argument sake, a psychiatrist, social worker and surgeon signed off on the "necessity" of such surgery. If you're denied, you can appeal the decision. One of the things that may incentivize an insurance company to cover such surgery is "medical loss ratio." No-copay preventive procedures are reviewed and approved by HHS.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Absolutely wrong! This is not about whether the Catholic church should be forced to pay for contraception because the church does NOT have to pay for it. They are exempt. This is about whether catholic funded and controlled businesses have to pay for healthcare that provides contraception. Very big difference and a distinction that is being lost in the debate.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

It's not much of a distinction. It's a privately held entity, controlled by the Catholic Church.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Is Chik-Fil-A part of the Southern Baptist church? It's founder is and makes SB teachings a big part of their business. Should they also be able to choose not to provide healthcare services beyond the minimum mandate?

What if the Church of Christ, Scientist had as many schools as the Catholic church did? They don't believe in medicine! Could their schools opt out because it is against their beliefs?

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Really? Take a look at the Board of Directors of the many catholic hospitals and schools out there. You will find tons of doctors and executives, but very little if any bishops, archbishops, or cardinals. Sure there will be some priests, but priests are not in a position of leadership within the RCC hierarchy.

This is a very strong distinction. Businesses, including schools and hospitals, are just that, businesses. Church backing \= church.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Under Title VII of the Civil Rights Act, religion is defined as all aspects of religious observance, practice, and belief. Churches and religious organizations can discriminate on the basis of religion for all jobs. This includes and is not limited to secretaries, accountants, and janitors. The basis for permissible religious discrimination is the First Amendment's guarantee of religious freedom. The Supreme Court upheld the constitutionality of this in Corporation of the Presiding Bishop of the Church of Jesus Christ of Latter-Day Saints v. Amos,483 U.S. 327 (1987).

Given this fact. Chik-Fil-A is not covered and must offer insurance (they do). They cannot choose to opt out. Church of Christ, Scientist would not be compelled to comply.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

No doubt the Church of Christ, Scientist would not be compelled. My question is what defines a 'religious organization'?

Of course it doesn't matter now. Companies will not longer have to provide insurance that covers contraception. Insurance companies (none of which are church affiliated to my knowledge) will. A slight but important distinction.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

True - and the reason is that compromise wasn't compromise but realization by the administration they would lose. Better to frame it as compromise.

As to your question:
http://bodyfeltmount.com/news/2011/02/ninth-circuit-expands-religious-organization-definition/

Definition:
"First, the hypothetical corporation must be organized for a religious purpose, and the purpose must be set forth in the articles of incorporation. Second, the actions of the corporation must be consistent with the religious purpose. Third, the corporation must hold itself out to the public to be a religious organization. Fourth, the corporation must be a non-profit. Fifth, the corporation must offer products or services for free, or for a nominal amount."

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

My understanding is that many catholic hospitals and schools are not non-profit and that many charge much more than a 'nominal amount' for their services. I guess that means they do not qualify. Why was that never brought up?

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

David, Each organization would have to be looked at separately. I don't know of any school or hospital that holds itself out to be Catholic and makes a profit. How much they charge is not actually relevant since they may charge more for paying patrons so they may give away free services. Its not the charge but the overall structure of the organization and whether they have a designation as non-profit.Non profits can have reserves so they don't have to give every nickle and dime away. They may build up reserves (similar to retaining profit) but that doesn't make them for profit. By your description they have already met the first three of the four. You'd have to check with each one to see if they are non-profit..

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

The point is about paying. That's the whole point of the rule. This is something that should be covered by insurance.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

27 Replies

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago So 22 cents is just too much of a c...

  • Amy Sterling Casil 3 months ago Yes, everything covered by insuranc...

So 22 cents is just too much of a cost? Like I said, go pick up some cans on the side of the street if you're that hard up. Five cans equals one condom, with three cents left to spare.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

15 Replies

  • Michael Weiss 3 months ago You really don't understand wh...

  • Amy Sterling Casil 3 months ago Yes, Michael, this is why every cli...

  • Zaid A. Zaid 3 months ago Wow - the condescension in your com...

You really don't understand what choice means! The choice of the medical procedure and/or medication needed to address a women's reproductive health is none of your business. It's between her and her provider. Women often need hormonal treatment regardless of whether she is sexually active or not, e.g., PMDD, taking medication that is teratogenic, menstrual problems, etc. And if they decide that the best option for her situation is an IUD than insurance pays for it. I haven't heard you complain that Notre Dame men can get viagra on their health plan but Notre Dame women can't get their procedures and/or medication covered. That is misogynistic and under the ACA 2010 illegal.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Yes, Michael, this is why every clinic that provided abortions I've ever been in had a waiting room full of young females with men at their side. To make sure they went through with it. It's so very much about choice. It was kind of the gentlemen to pay for it, all things considered. It's just too bad the darn things are so expensive! But a deal, when compared to 18 years of monthly child support.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Wow - the condescension in your comments is palpable. I would hope that this conversation could be kept at a real academic level, and not devolve into the ridiculous and the clear disdain you show for people who cannot afford to make co-pays for their contraception. Everyone can't be a lawyer in private practice, Sir.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Do you have any idea of how bizarre it is that you are arguing so vehemently about women's "choice" and know so much about this type of thing, when the reality out there is so very different? We don't have "Teen Mom 2" and women who drop out of school in 8th grade because they are pregnant because Notre Dame doesn't cover pills or diaphragms for its employees. I have asked people, which do you think is a bigger concern in America right now - racism or gender bias? I think it's obvious what that concern is based on this discussion. I'm the only female mentioning realities for females. Instead, it's the same talking points over and over - it's not about women, it's about hating on the church. Anything that destroys this very inhumane hegemony

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

This issue is women's health.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Personally, it would be a shame if the guy you just had sex with wasn't sitting besides you holding your hand when you decided to get an abortion.
That would be a shame.

You oversimplify abortions. Not all men who get a girl pregnant want the girl to get an abortion... additionally, many factors go into the decision to get an abortion. It's not as simple as saying "oops, i got preggers"

lastly, this article isn't about abortion its about providing contraception which would prevent unintended pregnancies which would decrease the number of abortions overall!

there you go, less abortions. make contraception accessible.
condoms aren't the only answer here.

  • Mic this! 3
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

You don't expect me to solve the psychosocial dynamics of hormonal driven teenagers in 750 characters ;-) That's allot of pressure!

Such tragic cases of abuse and coercion are why education, access and empowerment are so important.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Avantika, you misunderstand what I am saying, because you haven't been in the position I describe, and don't know what I am talking about. I am a survivor of sexual assault, I've been sexually harassed (separate incident years later), and I actually had a near-stranger go after me personally because I was engaged to marry his wife's former husband. Of course this man was a sociopath. After I became pregnant and made the CHOICE to have the baby, this gentleman thought he had the "right" to tell the world I should have had an abortion. My baby was born with Down Syndrome. This man believed he had no right to live, as a disabled child. He believed he had a "right" to say this. There is no "protection" against any of this except our selves.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Ms. Sterling Casil,

I am sorry to hear about the assault and harassment you had to deal with. No woman should have to deal with that.

But I would like to remind all that this article has nothing to do with things you are talking about. It has to do with access to contraception. Your comments are probably more appropriate for another article.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Mr. Zaid, the church does provide some protection for the lives of its members and it is based in its belief in the sanctity of human life, which is also why contraception is prohibited by Catholic doctrine. I am commenting because I think the church provides a different type of protection for women and children. To a Catholic, there is little difference between "Plan B" and an abortion. Both terminate pregnancy. I'm just trying to point up the hypocrisy of "women's rights" advocates, and yes, I was saying "men's convenience advocates." This conveniently batters down a major institution that upholds traditional morality and human concern for others. If you want to shut me up, please absolutely do be my guest. You make my point exactly.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

I have no desire to shut you up. I just wish that your comments were relevant.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Has it crossed your mind that we might have such different perspectives that you see my comments as "irrelevant"? Did it also, for one second, cross your mind that maybe, just maybe, you were being extremely certain on behalf of large numbers of people who might disagree and might not find it necessary for the government to mandate what the church should and should not do or pay for? That they might have different concerns and view their "rights" differently?

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

The majority of Americans and Catholics in America agree with the Obama Administration's new rule.

http://slatest.slate.com/posts/2012/02/07/prri_poll_catholics_support_co_pay_free_contraception_from_employer_health_insurance.html

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

The debate, though somewhat off topic is fascinating. Thank you and its not for entertainment. But, Zaid, we don't want to be ruled by the sways of mass public opinion - that's a mob. They do all manner of evil. Justice rarely occurs. There are principles of humanity, safety, and religion. The most missing is common sense to know where is the Justice for all that leads to peace for each one - Justitia et Pax.

People look at things as winners and losers as though its black and white. It is not. There are principles that if followed would allow all peace and the desires they wish for themselves in concert with all though all don't have to have the same rule for they have chosen to go a separate way as to personal choice. That is freedom.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Birth control pills often cost over $100/month. That's a stiff price to pay, especially when sometimes they are prescribed for things other than to prevent pregnancy. I had a friend who was prescribed them at a very young age to regulate their cycle even though they were not sexually active. Oddly enough, she works for a church now (though not catholic).

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Yes, everything covered by insurance. While they're at it, they might as well honest up and offer the boyfriend/married man abortion tax deduction. This product depicted in the article does NOT protect against any STD, and as I pointed up, is favored by some men and pushed on women even if it's not the right product for them - so they don't have to wear a condom which they dislike. Condoms are good protection against STDs for males and females, but HIV is on the rise, because men of all sexual persuasions do not like them. This is just about forcing the agenda of guys having as much sex as they want, any time they want, any way they want, the least consequences possible. There was a religious and moral objection - but why bother.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

10 Replies

  • Zaid A. Zaid 3 months ago Contraception is not just about pro...

  • Amy Sterling Casil 3 months ago OK - first you said "the insur...

  • Michael Weiss 3 months ago Why should a woman who has health c...

Contraception is not just about protection from STDs. To say that people can use condoms instead of other forms of contraception is comparing apples and oranges (to quote another writer on this thread). People should probably be using both of them at the same time.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

OK - first you said "the insurance should pay for it" and then you mentioned co-pays. You are imposing your morality on others, and it's twisted to the point that men have actually convinced others that "women's right to choose" is the same as their desire to have sex without negative consequences. So-called "women's advocates" could not care less about the real well-being of women and young girls. Contraception is very available throughout the U.S., from OTC options like condoms and foam, to health clinics that are free or very low cost. I know fully-insured women who use public health clinics for birth control due to its affordability.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Why should a woman who has health care insurance and no-copay contraceptive equity (in effect since August via ACA 2010) go to a public health clinic (which I fully support for a variety of social justice and preventive health reasons)? One reason not to encourage this practice is the PH clinics are already overwhelmed. I don't want to mitigate your experience with uncaring advocates, but the majority that I know are concerned and cognizant of the challenges facing women. My experience is also that the nurses and practitioners that help with reproductive health are compassionate and empathetic to the woman's needs. I can't vouches for other men--I know we can be pigs.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Michael, I honestly don't know, except I believe it for convenience, or possibly they may not want to undergo additional tests or appointments at their regular provider. Clinics are indeed overwhelmed. I don't think we're so far off the same page - I worked with low-income people for so long that I am very against people who vehemently argue about things they know little about. On a personal level - I've always received good care, and also have been a near lifelong Kaiser Permanente member. Some Kaiser OB/GYN offices do NOT perform abortions, and some do - of course all Kaiser facilities will do thorough workups and work hard to find the best options for contraception. Kaiser is also where the doctor said, "Childbirth may be painful" . . .

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

That's probably all the compassion or understanding that he (I assume) could muster. Remember that 1/2 the doctors graduate in the bottom half of their class.

OB/GYNs that perform abortions are frightening scarce (latest poll was only 14%).

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

LOL! Yes, the "childbirth may be painful" doc wasn't the most in-tune guy one might hope to meet. I received care at one excellent OB office where the nurses and PAs told me they'd voted - no abortions at their hands. They gave outside referrals only, and patients were responsible to pay. However, if you looked on the treatment sheets that were in use at the time, there was an "x" at the top that indicated late-term abortions, so someone, somewhere in the Kaiser system would perform the procedure. I asked about it, and that was how I learned about the "vote" they'd taken. Now they are all EHR so such facts are much more mysterious (you can only see your own procedures).

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

I guess there is a stigma/security issue with providing abortion services--sort of the "Cider House Rules" situation--where they were performed but no one talked about it. I guess the good thing about EHR is that now your confidentiality is more secure.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Should we force Ob/gyn's to perform abortions?

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

It's not too far off the line of thinking that goes into specifics of what must be paid for on insurance. I like the "medically necessary" element that has been introduced. The primary reason for late-term abortions conducted in a hospital environment is Down Syndrome or other chromosomal abnormalities. A Down Syndrome baby may or may not be born with serious physical problems. They are no more a threat to the mother's life than any other baby. A woman could be at serious risk with any pregnancy due to any number of health problems, but she usually knows this, and again, any type of abortion due to this reason would be performed in a hospital environment, not a street-corner abortion clinic. Many people don't believe in contraception . . .

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

and they will go into the clinic to deal with the unwanted baby with a relatively light heart. But it doesn't work that way. Over time, repeated abortions can absolutely cause trouble conceiving when the person wants to have a baby. Years later, women may wonder about the baby they never had, and go through a grieving period. Obviously, contraception is much preferable to any of these problems, which is why non-Catholics like myself think it's beneficial, and also think "Plan B" and even the abortion pill are better than the alternatives. It's a complex situation, but aside from using contraception and protection against disease, there aren't any happy sides to abortion. It is at best sad and at worst dangerous.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Do you think it's fair that men get viagra but woman don't get oral contraceptives, Plan B and/or IUDs? There is inequity in contraceptive for women and ED pills for men on the same insurance plan. That's what we're talking about. When an employer covers you with health insurance, usually as an incentive to hire you or retain you, they have to cover birth control. What, if any, BC you and your practitioner choose is between you and him/her. I don't know of many insurance companies that will cover condoms, but I agree that they should be worn (RCC doesn't condone). The question is should men get preferential coverage on their health plans? I say no. If CCs provides insurance and the men get viagra shouldn't the women be reimbursed for OCs?

  • Mic this! 3
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

4 Replies

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago You're right. So let's n...

You're right. So let's not cover Viagra either. Problem solved.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

3 Replies

  • Amy Sterling Casil 3 months ago LOL! Thanks, Gary. Mr. Weiss, the i...

  • Avantika Krishna 3 months ago its not that simple, and you know ...

  • Michael Weiss 3 months ago I don't think you know me well...

LOL! Thanks, Gary. Mr. Weiss, the inequities in healthcare provided to women and to men is a little more than Viagra vs. birth control pills or alternatives (shots, implants, the new IUD things that are probably just as awful as the old ones, diaphragms, etc). There's only one women's health problem that receives more research dollars and effort than most male health problems - breast cancer. And of course, funding Planned Parenthood is a LOT more important than curing breast cancer, since most ladies who get that are older and past their child- and breast-baring years. By all means continue to advocate for making things easier and less problematic for men to have all the sex they want, no consequences or worries of any type.

  • Mic this! 3
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

its not that simple, and you know they won't revise the policy. either side.

so now its inequality.

change the system and provide contraception to women, that makes the system equal.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

I don't think you know me well enough to impune my motives or my sexual and/or family history. You can make whatever personal decisions that you'd like about your sexual behavior and medical decisions. You have that option because you live in a state that has a contraceptive equity law!

What shocks me is that you'd be against providing the same protections to women in other states and other circumstances. Women who might want to exercise different decisions than you might or have chosen.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Thanks for articulating this. When I saw Shields AND Brooks agreeing that this was a horrible mistake by Obama, I began to question it and listen to the Zeitgeist and found that all of this rabble rousing is a result again of journalists not reading legislation, but listening to think tanks and news aggregators.

Some Catholic colleges do provide contraception for employees, many of whom are not Catholic. So there the debate should really lie. Obama wins again, Santorum did just inform us that he thinks he is smarter than us. It's a political football and a boon for Santorum w/ his base, not be an Obama disaster.

As a recovering Irish Catholic with that engrained and lingering self-loathing, trust me, our people need contraception...

  • Mic this! 4
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Great job on the article; I couldn't agree more that the Obama Administration should be commended for their actions. Religious doctrine is obviously far different from the law. Saying that woman should not expect contraception at a religious college is in the same vein of saying gays shouldn't marry. Just because the church doesn't agree with it, doesn't mean people shouldn't have the right to do so (the right to marry a person of the same sex, or have access to contraception at college)- whenever and wherever. Happenstance, I'm going to be a freshman next year at GU and I can honestly say this just makes me doubly proud to be going there.

  • Mic this! 7
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!
  • No longer with us
  • 3 months ago

This account has been disabled.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Sometimes, the "men in red hats" are wrong. The church must change and get with the times.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

31 Replies

  • Darwin Long 3 months ago Lawrence, the "men in red hats...

  • Constantine Kapothanasis 3 months ago "Sometimes, the "men in r...

Lawrence, the "men in red hats" allegedly have a red phone that connects them directly to "the big guy" and its allegedly He who calls the shots. Religious freedom allows people to suspend their ability to think and follow blindly the instructions coming from the other end of that red phone line.

Government has no business trying to pop that bubble of blind faith, it'll only make the followers angry and will accomplish nothing.

It would be nice if religions would wake up and become logical and honest, but then they'd be out of business.

  • Mic this! 3
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

17 Replies

  • Constantine Kapothanasis 3 months ago "It would be nice if religions...

  • Tyler Kuhn 3 months ago The difference between bigotry and ...

"It would be nice if religions would wake up and become logical and honest, but then they'd be out of business."

Quite a sweeping generalization to make.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

15 Replies

  • Darwin Long 3 months ago "Quite a sweeping generalizati...

  • Constantine Kapothanasis 3 months ago Makes you just as bad as a racist o...

  • Avantika Krishna 3 months ago really? religions should wake up a...

"Quite a sweeping generalization to make."

Yes it is. And try as I might, I can find no holes in it.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Makes you just as bad as a racist or sexist. You're blinded by some bigotry you can't look past.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

really?
religions should wake up and get with the times and adapt.

That doesn't mean religions can't stay true to their principles, it just means it needs to adapt with the times otherwise it'll die.

Adapt or die.

basic principle of the universe.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Right so if you can't provide contraception for yourself and you get a disease and die that's the way of the universe. You still haven't explained where the fed gov has the power to mandate and compell a private institute to provide free bc. It's an attack on the 1st ammendment. I'm sorry to inform you but religion has been around a lot longer than bc and it won't die out because some cultural Marxist believes they know what's best for everyone else. We don't take initiative on law based on the rest of the world. That's not freedom that's not liberty.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

We've become a needs want versus society. I shouldn't have to subsidize your lack of responsibility as and employer or private entity. If I own a business and don't provide that don't work for me.

Furthermore by your logic, where is my free gun? The government owes me a free gun if we're looking at an incorporated constitution

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Interesting: You claim that religions can "stay true to their principles" but need to "get with the times."

You do realize that contraception goes against a "principle" of the Catholic Church. How can you on one hand say they should be able to stay true to their principles and then argue in favor of the gov't forcing them to betray that principle?

Not quite following.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Constantine, if people can't at least go buy condoms or take advantage of the free condoms and contraception that are available almost anywhere, then I don't think they should be having sex, because they might as well be walking into a TB ward and trying to give mouth to mouth resuscitation to every patient, and if they're that incompetent and low-motivated, they truly have no business doing something that has the type of consequences that unprotected sex has (mainly, babies). Will the baby come and they'll say, "I ran out of the 8 diapers they sent me home from the hospital with so I therefore never changed him?" "I forgot how to install the free car seat so I let Junior ride in my lap." It never ends.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Then why do we provide water, shelter, food, security, etcetera?
Just because an institution has been here longer than government doesn't make it right.
Length of existence is not correlated to being right.

Seriously, if private companies/groups actually had decent health care policies that looked out for the interest of its workers, the govt wouldn't have to step in. The contraception question is a basic health care question. We are entitled to healthcare. We do follow the Universal Dec. of Human Rights as part of the United Nationa.
"Everyone has the right to a standard of living adequate for the health and well-being of himself and of his family, including food, clothing, housing and medical care and necessary social services.."

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

its about basic health care and my right to that.
birth control is health care.

Gary - interestingly enough, back in the day, people used the Bible and the church as a means of discriminating against Black people quoting some bible verse or another.
There were black Churches and white churches. Wit the rise of the Civil Rights Movement and equality between Black people and their caucasian counterparts, if the church continued to segregate and didn't adapt, where would they be today? they stuck to their principles and adapted.
thats what I'm talking about. contraception isn't a core tenet in Catholicism. its just one belief they hold now, the same way segregation was a belief they held them.

Constantine said 2.99 condoms, I was quoting him

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Contraception isn't just for sex.
The Pill is also used for healthcare problems.
Not just sex.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

I cant argue with someone who responds on emotion and can't back their claim on anything other than opinion. Do we provide free water? no. Do we provide free shelter? no. Do we provide free food? no. do we provide free security? no. You have half the country not paying income taxes which provides the government the funding for subsidized (cellphone,housing,food,etc) And only home owners pay for security through property taxes.

All I hear from you is WANT WANT WANT - But you pay for it.

Sorry hunny, we are a sovereign nation and the federal government is bound by the consitution not the United Nations.

Your argument is baseless and you're responding on pure emotion. Really what you need is to take responsibility for your own actions.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

I cant argue with someone who responds on emotion and can't back their claim on anything other than opinion. Do we provide free water? no. Do we provide free shelter? no. Do we provide free food? no. do we provide free security? no. You have half the country not paying income taxes which provides the government the funding for subsidized (cellphone,housing,food,etc) And only home owners pay for security through property taxes.

All I hear from you is WANT WANT WANT - But you pay for it.

Sorry hunny, we are a sovereign nation and the federal government is bound by the consitution not the United Nations.

Your argument is baseless and you're responding on pure emotion. Really what you need is to take responsibility for your own actions.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Why do we provide "free" water, shelter, etc. . . ? Benevolence. Pure and simple. It used to be done through the private sector in the form of charity. Now gov't plays a larger role.

Notwithstanding, there is a very real difference b/w benevolence/charity and entitlements. Nobody in this country has a "right" to any of the above. Our "rights" are set forth in the Constitution.

Again I ask you: If you have a "right" to water, heat, contraceptives, etc. . . do I not have an obligation to pay for your right to have them free of charge? What gives you the right to the fruits of my labor? Why should I have to work for your benefit?

If you truly had a "right" to these basics, there would be no requirement for you to do anything to attain them.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Exactly. This is a form of federal government tyranny scoffing in the face of the 1st amendment.

I hope the left is not going to groan so loud when this newly created power is in the hands of the opposition!

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Sunday is the most segregated day of the week.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

The difference between bigotry and an "enlightened thought" is who one attacks.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

"Sometimes, the "men in red hats" are wrong. The church must change and get with the times. "

So lets just give the federal government the power to regulate every nook and cranny of this country because obviously they are the most benevolent knowing power and ALWAYS do the right thing.

I hope they don't come break up my super duper secret baseball card club i hold on the weekend with my friends because the leadership doesnt offer health care or birth control!

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

12 Replies

  • Lawrence Sampson 3 months ago This is already the law in more tha...

This is already the law in more than half the states and has been for years. In fact those states don't even exempt churches the way the new federal law does. When I hear your outrage about that then your position might have some credibility.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

11 Replies

  • Constantine Kapothanasis 3 months ago Why would I be outraged by a state ...

  • Lawrence Sampson 3 months ago So its not the law you're agai...

  • Constantine Kapothanasis 3 months ago What are you talking about? My conc...

Why would I be outraged by a state law that clearly falls under the power of the state as delegated by the 10th ammendment? Where is the federal governments authority to mandate a private institution must provide condoms for free? Explain that.

And I'm glad you think so highly of yourself that you dictate what's credible and what's not. Drop the elitist attitude. There is no "generally accepted" ammendment.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

So its not the law you're against its who passes it. Fine this shows your interest is not in Catholic issues but instead are trying to make political points about a serious issue to those within the Catholic faith. I care deeply about this and if you want to call me elitist for doing so then so be it. I assure you there are many addressing this internally and unless you are a part of these goings on you're just a talking head parrotting other idiots also ignorant about the subject.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

What are you talking about? My concern is the gov following the limitations set forth to protect us from tyranny. You still haven't pointed out the federal govs authority to impose such a mandate on a private institution. Your short sightedness is unbearable. You realize that your beloved democrats won't always be in power right? Any expansion of fed gov power will be handed off to someone you disagree with.

Again very simply answer the question where is the fed govs authority to create such a mandate on a private institute?

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

The federal mandate is much stricter than existing state mandates. HHS chose the narrowest state-level religious exemption as the model for its own.That exemption was drafted by the ACLU and exists in only 3 states (New York, California, Oregon).Even without a religious exemption, religious employers can already avoid the contraceptive mandates in 28 states by self-insuring their prescription drug coverage, dropping that coverage altogether, or opting for regulation under a federal law (ERISA) that pre-empts state law.The HHS mandate closes off all these avenues of relief.

boom.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

The fact remains states have already been mandating this coverage for years. Most of them dont' even exempt the church itself. The new federal law exempts churches but not businesses. The country as a whole is in favor of this. Catholics are in favor of this in even greater numbers than non-Catholics. The church apparatus is wrong. Period. End of story.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

You obviously have trouble reading, among other issues.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

If my biggest problem is I believe in health care for women as well as anyone else, then most of America has that same problem. If my biggest problem is I believe the church is wrong on this issue, then I am with most Catholics in having THAT problem. If my biggest problem is that I oppose the rights war on women, then I'm proud to have that problem. I have many problems, none of which have any bearing on how wrong you are about this.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

You haven't backed anything you say with anything other than your opinion which you hold in such high regard. The paragraph I posted was a press release from the uccb which represents catholic bishops. Get over yourself. More people believe in the 1st ammendment. The fed gov cannot compell a religious institute to go against a principled value. You reply to everything on pure emotion with no regard for actual law or reason You're an unreasonable person.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Apparently I'm not the only one with a problem with reading or comprehension. I've already referenced in other posts the numerous polls by the Research Policy Institute and others that show the majority of Americans are behind the administration on this, and Catholics are in even greater numbers. All you've done is post the same opinions by the same people that initiated this article and discussion. Is that emotion? No. Am I emotional about this issue? Perhaps because I have a personal stake in it and I won't apologize for that. Nor will I insult you for your opinion although I do think the right is purely trying to make cheap political points on an issue it doesn't really care about. If it did it would have complained earlier.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Constantine, if the mandate to cover contraception is a first amendment issue--and I am sympathetic to that argument that it is--why is a federal mandate different from a state mandate? The 10th amendment does not give states the right to violate the first amendment.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Well for the left its a constitution of convenience. Obviously if he had a incorporated constitution there would be no state gun laws.

Even without a religious exemption, religious employers can already avoid the contraceptive mandates in 28 states by self-insuring their prescription drug coverage, dropping that coverage altogether, or opting for regulation under a federal law (ERISA) that pre-empts state law

And I'm sure there is cases in these states against these mandates.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Things always get sketchy when people say they have a "right" to something. The issue is not whether contraceptions should be legal, it isn't even about preventing women from purchasing these things from outside suppliers, but what we have here is the attempt to force a Catholic institution to supply a product that they deem is in violation of their religious code. Imagine if the Federal Government forced jewish and muslim private schools to sell pork in their cafeterias, the left would be crying out against this religious bigotry. However, because we are attacking a Christian organization, well I guess that's just kosher for this White House.

  • Mic this! 3
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

10 Replies

  • Lawrence Sampson 3 months ago No one is being attacked. This is a...

  • Rita Solomon 3 months ago Selling pork is in no way similar t...

  • Amy Sterling Casil 3 months ago Bacon at shul! Bacon cheeseburgers...

No one is being attacked. This is a public health issue. The Catholic church is already "forced" to do this in the 28 states which already mandate such. So we're only talking about the remaining 22 states, and the federal law exempts the church itself which the state laws don't do. This is absolutely not an attack. Catholic health officials played a major part in drafting this plan and it is not the first time the church has been wrong. The church's feigned "outrage" is disingenuous and is wrong.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

4 Replies

  • Tyler Kuhn 3 months ago In the eyes of the Church, this is ...

In the eyes of the Church, this is not a public health issue, it is a moral one about the sanctity of human life. Just because they are "forced" to do this in 28 other states doesn't make it any more just, in fact the expansion of it would only increase the injustice not condone it. Yes, there have been times when the Church erred, but their is fundamental difference between dogma and practice (Tradition vs. tradition). Absenteeism, simony, corruption and etc were immoral traditions that were changed. However, this issues strikes at the heart of what the Catholic Church deems as life and this Tradition is exactly the type of religious practice protected under the free exercise clause.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

3 Replies

  • Lawrence Sampson 3 months ago Contraception is absolutely a publi...

  • Tyler Kuhn 3 months ago "Contraception is absolutely a...

  • Tyler Kuhn 3 months ago Dogma aside for the moment, the rea...

Contraception is absolutely a public health issue so says the Secretary of Health and Human Services who I think knows a thing or two about it, and since 98% of Catholics have used birth control I think that speaks for itself as to what the rank and file of the Catholic church believes. The heirarchy may be behind the times but that doesn't mean the rest of us are. As for what the church believes we can get into a long and detailed argument about that if you wish but this certainly isn't something for the right to try and turn into votes purely out of their hatred for you know who.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

"Contraception is absolutely a public health issue so says the Secretary of Health and Human Services" Im not really sure how this is an argument. Yes, studies indicate that many American Catholics use contraceptive but that does not take into account the hundreds of million Catholics elsewhere around the world. I certainly agree with you, religion should not be a partisan issue, the President seemed to agree with that line of thinking when he signed Stupak's executive order to get his vote on healthcare. Once again, no one is saying that contraception should be illegal, but to force a religious institution to do something against their ideals in the land of the free is an outrage. If you want contraception, pay for it, for it is not a righ

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Dogma aside for the moment, the real issue here is a legal one. If we concede that there no longer is a separation between private and public as established by Marshall in the Dartmouth v. Woodward case, then no institution, religious or secular, is safe from the mandates and whims of the federal government. Think of it like this, imagine down the road a new president with a new HHS secretary assumes power. And that secretary deems contraceptives to endager public health for whatever reason given and that administration henceforth forbade public colleges from distributing contraception. Under your logic, since there is no longer a separation between private and public when it comes to public health, this would be perfectly acceptable.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Selling pork is in no way similar to the Catholic church providing contraception - which will greatly improve women's health and reduce abortion - to college girls WHO ARE SEXUALLY ACTIVE ANYWAY. Unless Jewish and Muslim private schools are selling pork as a protective measure against a health issue, then no, it is not similar. This is not about religious doctrines, it should be about keeping the youth safe and healthy. I agree that there should be no state/government intrusion in the matter, but that does not in any way make the Catholic church, stubbornly sticking to dogma over women's health, right.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

2 Replies

  • Tyler Kuhn 3 months ago No, the two are very much related. ...

No, the two are very much related. Both examples require a religious institution to distribute a product that conflicts with their beliefs. I do think there is any proof to say that more contraceptives lead to fewer abortions. "Keeping the youth safe and healthy." I think the Church would agree with this idea but they would argue that the least risky activity for those worried about health is to not engage in sex before the sacrement of matrimony.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

1 Replies

  • Rita Solomon 3 months ago Tyler, that's potentially a go...

Tyler, that's potentially a good idea, but let's be realistic here. College kids will have sex, whether the church bans contraceptives or not. The fact that it bans contraceptives only means that they are at a higher health risk. Thus, the issue here is religious dogma vs. the health of young kids. I think the right choice is pretty evident.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Bacon at shul! Bacon cheeseburgers. Yum!

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

1 Replies

  • Michael Weiss 3 months ago Don't forge the lobster....

Don't forge the lobster.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

A majority of Catholics voted for Obama the first time around. They won't make the same mistake twice. There are more than 70 million Catholics in this country, and many are very upset with this decision. I see tonight the White House may be looking for a compromise; looks they're feeling the heat.

http://www.washingtonpost.com/blogs/post-partisan/post/contraception-rule-compromise-white-house-bungling/2012/02/07/gIQA5wDFxQ_blog.html

  • Mic this! 3
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

7 Replies

  • Zaid A. Zaid 3 months ago Somehow I don't see a majority...

  • Ben Poole 3 months ago David Axelrod maintains that “ext...

  • Lawrence Sampson 3 months ago There may yet be a compromise. That...

Somehow I don't see a majority of Catholics voting for Republicans.

I wish people would get this riled up about the death penalty -- which as I understand it -- the Catholic Church is also against...

  • Mic this! 4
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

3 Replies

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago That would be a great point if the ...

That would be a great point if the gov't were forcing Catholics to give the lethal injection. Until then; apples and oranges.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

2 Replies

  • Zaid A. Zaid 3 months ago My point isn't about forcing a...

  • Lawrence Sampson 3 months ago Not sure if you've watched any...

My point isn't about forcing anything -- it is about why people get so worked up about some things, but really care less about others. You are proving my point.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Not sure if you've watched anything besides Fox news the last two days. Several polls including those by the Research Policy Institute show Americans are overwhelming in favor of this law, and Catholics in greater numbers than anyone else. As usual, you're wrong.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

David Axelrod maintains that “extended, affiliated institutions like hospitals and universities” should be regulated like an Apple Store or 7-11, since all employ and serve non-members. This represents a deep misunderstanding of religion itself. Catholics serve non-Catholics precisely because that is the calling of Catholicism. Christians serve non-Christians because that is one of their defining missions in the world. There is nothing “extended” or “affiliated” about a Catholic shelter for abused women or the homeless. Such institutions are Catholic in motivation, Catholic in inspiration, Catholic through and through

That quote is from the your Gary's link states exactly that this is a religious issue. It probably effects >1% of pop

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

There may yet be a compromise. That aside, if you think Catholics are going to vote for the bigotted, anti-Catholic, pro-death penalty party you're fooling yourself. In the end the Catholics I know and worship with follow their conscience as the Humane Vitae encourages us to do. That some are trying to make political hay with this serious church issue is yet another despicable whoring reflection of the desire to say or do anything to eject a Black president. You should be ashamed.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

1 Replies

  • Ben Poole 3 months ago Vote how they please. Worship howev...

Vote how they please. Worship however they please or not at all.

There will never be compromise. There may be some back room deals done that are against the Constitution but this will not go away. You are a hypocrite straight up by claiming to be for a non pro-death party supporting a POTUS who assassinates US citizens, kills men, women, and children for no US cause but his kingship's. The hell on earth that Obama unleashed in Libya will be remembered every time I can post another atrocity as the result of his adventures in Libya present themselves. Look whose whoring with the most despicable person that I have known to grace the steps of the White House. I could care less if he's purple. Your superficial bloviation is your reflection.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

I am in favor of access to contraception, and on one hand I do believe that colleges should be supportive of women's health in this way. But on the other hand, it is interfering for the government to require private institutions (that are Catholic) to submit to a secular ideal. Since those are private institutions, they should be able to make decisions. Nobody's forced to go to a given college, and so a Catholic institution is not automatically forcing Catholicism upon everyone else. It's a choice to attend such schools, and it's a choice for those schools when it comes to their policies.

  • Mic this! 4
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

10 Replies

  • Manar Hijaz 3 months ago Lauren, I completely understand ...

  • Avantika Krishna 3 months ago The issue is that its not always st...

Lauren,

I completely understand the point you are making. But on the same token, providing contraception doesn't mean women must use them. Meaning, if they chose to restrain from something they feel is against Catholicism no one is forcing them to use them. However, there are many student who would like to attend these universities but at the same time have access to contraceptives they otherwise could not afford. I feel it is a win win situation.

  • Mic this! 3
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

2 Replies

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago A private college tuition is somewh...

A private college tuition is somewhere in the neighborhood of $30K/yr. Would buying a box of condoms across the street at the nearest drug store be a crazy expense and inconvenience? Good grief.

If your sex life isn't worth the cost of a condom, maybe you shouldn't be doing it in the first place.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

1 Replies

  • Avantika Krishna 3 months ago You realize condoms are only 97% ef...

You realize condoms are only 97% effective right?
other forms of birth control are much more effective... and cost more.

the point isn't cheap birth control, the point is effective birth control.
3% when it comes to unwanted pregnancies is a percentage thats far too big.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

The issue is that its not always students choices about where to attend college.
For many students, their parents do play a very influential role in deciding where their kid goes to school.
If your parents want you to go a catholic university and tell you that if you dont, they won't pay for college... you can either pay for college yourself and go somewhere that'll have contraceptions
or
you can either go to that catholic university and figure out your own way to protect your health.
Paying 40k a year for school for at least 4 years, in the short run seems worse than unsafe and unprotected sex.

Parents influence their kids choices and its never as simple as saying "no" and not going.

Decisions aren't always that black and white.

  • Mic this! 4
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

6 Replies

  • Lauren Yu 3 months ago fair enough - I see your point...

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago Are you telling me that kids who ca...

fair enough - I see your point

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Are you telling me that kids who can afford to spend $40K/yr for a private school education can't swing $10 for a box of condoms at the nearest drug store? Last I checked, the pill provides absolutely no protection from STD's.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

4 Replies

  • Lawrence Sampson 3 months ago Hello.....if you're going to c...

  • Avantika Krishna 3 months ago $40k was just a figure, it could be...

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago Lawrence, awesome point as always. ...

Hello.....if you're going to comment about a subject do some research. The pill isn't just about contraception, as Ms. Sebelius pointed out in her statement.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

$40k was just a figure, it could be $5k per year, doesn't matter. Money is money.
Even if it was $40k a year, that's the parents money, not the students money. Not all parents will be okay with their children being sexually active and pay money for condoms or birth control. Besides, there are other limitations to "paying for a box of condoms" or other forms of birth control. Not having money being the biggest one... and its not that easy to just get a job. Academics come first, so there may be no time. There also may be no jobs available, which in our economy isn't a far stretched possibility. Additionally, depending on their citizenship status, that might not be a possibility.

Btw, the pill is only ONE form of birth control.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Lawrence, awesome point as always. How many college age women do you think take birth control pills for reasons other than contraception?

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

I have no idea, but I have met a few personally. I know they exist. Does it matter what the number is? If its five percent does that matter. What if another ten percent take them for both reasons, contraception and other health issues? IF that was fifteen percent does it matter? If its less, more, does it matter?

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

In my first year of residence our floor fellows always had condoms for "emergency purposes" and pretty much every orientation event we attended there was something to do with visit the clinic and get "educated" on how to have safe sex. I don't see how this is any different ...

  • Mic this! 4
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

6 Replies

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago Let's see if I can clear it up...

Let's see if I can clear it up for you:

In your example, the floor fellows made the decision on their own to provide condoms. At issue here is the federal gov't forcing religious entities to go against their own deeply held beliefs and provide birth control pills and morning after pills to students and employees. One is an example of free choice; the other is an example of tyranny.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

5 Replies

  • Nazia Iqbal 3 months ago The floor fellows act according to ...

  • Nazia Iqbal 3 months ago to be accepted as a part of the soc...

  • Nazia Iqbal 3 months ago But by not allowing me access to fr...

The floor fellows act according to the procedures of the school . They do not have the power to make these decisions on their own . The reason why I gave this example was because these condoms were available to ensure preventive methods for children indulging in these activities . If you don't want to do something you wont do it . You wont do it because it is "free" . Religion is something personal just because the institution is allowing a topic

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

1 Replies

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago The fact remains the same: your sc...

The fact remains the same: your school made the decision on their own to provide condoms. They had freedom of choice. In the instant matter, that freedom has been stripped by the federal gov't. They are forcing the Catholic schools to provide free birth control under threat of sanctions, in direct opposition to centrally held religious beliefs.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

to be accepted as a part of the society doesn't mean that it is forcing you to indulge in that action.

Anyway, this situation reminds me of the movie the Mona Lisa Smile and how they are depicting the 1950s... I see we are "progressing"

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

But by not allowing me access to free medication isn't the educational institution taking away my right to make my decision by forcing their ideological thought on me ? Especially when we live in a rather or claim to be in a secular world where religion is supposed to be a part of the private arena

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

1 Replies

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago When you attend a private Catholic ...

When you attend a private Catholic school, you have made the choice to leave the "secular world" and enter the "private arena." When in the private arena, the private entity can/should be able to set their own rules.

I find it interesting that you claim the Catholics are "forcing their ideological thought on you", while in reality, the exact opposite is true. Catholics aren't forcing their ideology on you or anyone else. If you don't like their beliefs, no problem. Don't attend their private schools or seek care in their private hospitals. There are plenty of secular facilities at your disposal.

It is actually the gov't that is doing the imposing in this instance. They are forcing their secular ideological beliefs upon the Catholic church. They are requiring the church to disobey its own teachings under penalty of law.

Finally, you claim to have a "right" to free birth control. What you are really saying is that the Catholic church has an obligation to provide you with free birth control. There in lies the rub.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

This is great news! I'm not sure why discussion of contraceptives is always coupled with separation of church and state. Providing free contraceptives doesn't mean a. women are forced to use them or b. that it will increase the likelihood of sex. College student are having sex regardless. This just gives women the opportunity to choose contraceptives if they want to but can't afford them. Just because something is being offered doesn't mean individuals must partake in it. The Affordable Care Act does not infringe on religious obligations because it doesn't require the use of contraceptives.

  • Mic this! 4
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

8 Replies

  • Manar Hijaz 3 months ago I'm surprised all the comments...

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago This isn't complicated: It inf...

I'm surprised all the comments are coming from males.

Ladies, where you at?

  • Mic this! 3
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

This isn't complicated: It infringes on religious belief b/c it forces religious entities to ignore their own deeply held religious beliefs and and actually provide for contraceptives they believe are sinful.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

6 Replies

  • Manar Hijaz 3 months ago I can see how one can make that arg...

  • Lawrence Sampson 3 months ago Funny how you weren't saying a...

I can see how one can make that argument. Yes, maybe the act infringes on the Universities rights; however, I still stand by my original statement. That is, that the individuals at the school do not lose their religious liberties just because the school now offers contraceptives. They are being offered a variety of choices. Many women (including Catholic woman as well) will benefit from this measure, especially those who could not afford the contraceptives.

A Jewish University can offer non-kosher meals (for non-Jewish students) this does not translate into an infringement on Jews' religious freedoms. They don't have to chose to eat the ham sandwich.

But, we are probably going to have to agree to disagree on this one :)

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

2 Replies

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago Would it be infringing on the Jewis...

  • Manar Hijaz 3 months ago Fair point. Well, Obama is goin...

Would it be infringing on the Jewish Univ's rights if the gov't came along and forced the university to offer non-kosher meals? That's the issue here. Sure they could on their own decide to offer non-kosher meals. The very significant difference here is that Catholic schools aren't being given a choice, they are being forced to follow a gov't mandate. That's called tyranny.

You are correct the individuals at the school are not having their rights infringed, the Catholic church is having it's rights trampled by a gov't forcing them to provide free contraceptives to employees and students. The Church isn't being "offered a variety of choices." They are being forced, under punishment of sanctions, to provide contraceptives against their own religious teachings and firmly held beliefs.

Would it really be such a big deal for Obama to just give an exemption for Catholic entities? Is that so crazy? If he doesn't, he's going to pay a price in November. Count on it.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Fair point.

Well, Obama is going to be paying for a lot more than just this. He made a lot of promises he did not keep.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Funny how you weren't saying anything about the 28 states that require this. This isn't political and its really between Catholics and the government. Really its a Catholic issue. Its not something for the right to try and score political points with.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

2 Replies

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago I am a Catholic. Is it okay for me...

  • Lawrence Sampson 3 months ago You have to show me your Catholic c...

I am a Catholic. Is it okay for me to comment Lawrence?

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

You have to show me your Catholic card first.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Since when does anyone owe anybody anything in the private sector. Liberty is the minimum presence of coercion and tyranny is the maximum presence of coercion.

I think the government should pay for my motorcycle insurance because me and my motorcycle friends pay higher insurance because of it. If they aren't going to pay for it they should force my employer to pay for it.

Thats a good way to stifle job creation.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

6 Replies

  • Avantika Krishna 3 months ago Contraception is a basic right. Th...

Contraception is a basic right.
That's the way the world is shaping up to be, so its time America starts acting on its own ideals.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

5 Replies

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago Nobody is arguing you don't ha...

  • Constantine Kapothanasis 3 months ago You're joking, right? How is c...

Nobody is arguing you don't have a right to go out and buy your own contraception. Be my guest. However, where is it written that you have a "right" to make me pay for your contraception? In other words, why am I obligated to pay for your birth control pills?

Even worse, why should a religious entity deeply opposed to contraception have to pay for your birth control pills?

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

You're joking, right? How is contraception a basic human right and where do you draw that conclusion from? BC doesn't even prevent stds so what angle are you going to take this?? The pursuit of happiness is a basic human right and I can literally draw that from a binding legal document called our constitution. In my pursuit of happiness I ride a motorcycle. Why doesn't the fed leviathan pick up the tab for that as well??

When are we going to be adults? If you can't afford 2.99 condoms you can't afford to be having sex because no contraception is 100% effective.

Honestly I can't even believe some of the stuff people say sometimes.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

3 Replies

  • Avantika Krishna 3 months ago Im saying with the way politics and...

  • Constantine Kapothanasis 3 months ago Ok let me rephrase, the birth contr...

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago As far as I know, the "free&qu...

Im saying with the way politics and the world is going, birth control is becoming a basic right. That's part of the philosophical argument behind this issue.

Unless people make change, you don't get it. Pretty simple concept I would think.

Birth Control DOES prevent STDs, so I really don't know where you're getting your facts from.
Its not about the cost of condoms, which once again are not as effective as other forms of birth control. Its about the idea of health wellness and being safe when you have sex.

Believe it or not, just because people can't afford condoms doesn't mean that will stop them from having sex.

By the way, if you're sexually active, those "2.99 condoms" add up overtime.

No need to insult me because we dont agree.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Ok let me rephrase, the birth control PILL doesn't prevent STDs. You still haven't answered my question, where are you drawing your conclusion that the government has a role in providing birth control via tax payer and then imposing non public sector entities such as say a Mercy Hospital, or whatever.

Yes I believe it that people will continue to to have sex even if they can't afford condoms but we cant continue to be a society that rewards these behaviors. How about we let grown ups be grown ups and have them deal with the consequences.

This goes back to my motorcycle example. Why don't we pool everyones insurance together so you can take on the riskiness of my behavior on your dime.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

As far as I know, the "free" contraception offered under the health insurance policy refers to oral contraceptives. I hope you're not suggesting that the pill protects women from STD's. You aren't having safe sex if you are only using the pill.

What ever happened to the crazy notion of personal responsibility? Why should I have to pay for your sexual habits?

Btw, what kind of condoms cost 2.99 a piece? You can buy a box of 48 for $11.

http://www.cvs.com/CVSApp/search/search.jsp?searchTerm=condoms&QP=N%3D92%26Ntk%3DAll%26Nty%3D1%26Ne%3D14%26Ntx%3Dmode+matchallpartial%26Nr%3DOR%7B92%2COR%7B93%7D%2COR%7B90%7D%2COR%7B122%7D%7D%26searchType%3DsearchHome

That's 22 cents per condom. If you can't scrounge up 22 cents, you probably shouldn't be having sex in the first place.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

I wish more women would comment on this topic. Hearing only from men is not very satisfying.

  • Mic this! 3
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

11 Replies

  • Ben Poole 3 months ago Zaid, I'm not disagreeing with...

  • Carolyn Posner 3 months ago It's probably because a lot of...

Zaid, I'm not disagreeing with Griswold v. Connecticut or the end result of giving free choice to women. I believe that is right. I'm only arguing about how it is being done in a divisive way for no purpose other than to rally the left and anger the right when the same result could be achieved by other methods. It calls into question the character of Obama and why he is divisive when he has taught Constitutional law. He knows better and thus is guilty of divisiveness for the purpose of political gain. I have given Obama a chance and really did hope that he would be a change from GWB. Most independents felt the same way. But we have been betrayed.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

3 Replies

  • Zaid A. Zaid 3 months ago This was not done to rally the left...

This was not done to rally the left, or anger the right. It was done because it is the right thing to do from the perspective of women's health. Twenty-eight states already have laws with this same requirement. This brings the whole United States in conformity with what is right for the public health of women in the United States.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

2 Replies

  • Ben Poole 3 months ago Zaid, Are you speaking of ACA or ar...

  • Zaid A. Zaid 3 months ago From Today's Slate: Most ...

Zaid, Are you speaking of ACA or are you speaking of Obama's comments. There is a decidedly difference there. ACA its the law of the land (until proven unconstitutional). With Obama, his was a direct assault on a minority church and group of Christians. Never under estimate Obama. He knows exactly what he says and how he says it. It's choreographed and rehearsed especially announcements. You have to look at exactly what he says and determine how he means it and why. Everything is for a purpose.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

From Today's Slate:

Most Catholics Support Co-Pay-Free Contraception -- Despite the church's vocal opposition to the requirement for employer-provided health care.

The Public Religion Research Institute found that 55% of Americans, and 58% of self-identified Catholics, agree that employers should be required to provide their employees with health care plans that cover contraception and birth control at no cost. This more controversial part which affects Catholic-owned hospitals, schools, and other religious institutions that serve the general public, is also supported by a majority of Catholics in the new poll: 52% believe these institutions should not fall under a religious exemption.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

It's probably because a lot of women realize that their arguments (regardless of the reasoning) won't convince those who already feel strongly one way or the other, and have decided to save their breath.

  • Mic this! 3
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

6 Replies

  • Zaid A. Zaid 3 months ago It's still important to make y...

It's still important to make yourselves heard!

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

5 Replies

  • Carolyn Posner 3 months ago That's true. I vote and write...

  • Zaid A. Zaid 3 months ago I think that it is important to eng...

  • Carolyn Posner 3 months ago Did you know that exposure to contr...

That's true. I vote and write to my representatives, and (post paying off college loans) intend to contribute to political campaigns. But I have no illusions that I will be able to persuade anyone reading this article, or that it would matter even if I did...in fact, I'm pretty sure that reading the responses would only piss me off...so why bother?

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

I think that it is important to engage. Plus, if people get too comfortable, thinking that they have the better of the argument because they are the only ones making any noise about it, then the real argument gets drowned out -- and the narrative becomes the narrative of the people who speak out -- and not all of the people. The silent majority has a way of making the vocal minority seem like they are the majority opinion -- when in fact they are just the ones who take the time to make some noise about something that they believe to be true.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Did you know that exposure to contradictory facts and/or opinions actually makes people more certain that their original view was true? It's one of those things that's both hilarious and depressing simultaneously...

  • Mic this! 3
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

touche!

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

If you're interested in a link for political action see https://sites.google.com/site/healthcareeducationproject2012/home/preventive-care/pro-choice-catholics-letter

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

"the Obama administration announced that it will require religious institutions to abide by the rule"
It stinks right there. Separation of religion and government goes both ways. How do you people stand up for rights of minorities and then not stand up for what has now become a minority in Catholics. Hypocrites is the only way to explain it. Obama is one of the biggest hypocrites alive.

The Supreme Court has long recognized a First Amendment right for religious organizations to control their own internal affairs. Obama is always doing things the wrong way on purpose. In this instance, if it was required by all insurers to include coverage in all policies written then that is legal. To tell anything to the church is crossing a line.

  • Mic this! 4
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

9 Replies

  • Michael Weiss 3 months ago I don't understand your statem...

  • Lawrence Sampson 3 months ago Religious institutions can control ...

I don't understand your statement, "...if it was required by all insurers to include coverage in all policies written then that is legal."

What insurers were exempted from the ACA 2010 requirement to include no-copay contraceptive benefits?

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

7 Replies

  • Ben Poole 3 months ago Its not the ACA - Its Obama's ...

Its not the ACA - Its Obama's statement.

http://www.medpagetoday.com/Washington-Watch/Washington-Watch/27834

But there are many exemptions under ACA. I don't know them all. Obama's statement and the way he is going about it is wrong. Approach it from the law of the land for all and not single out against the Church. They can protest and they can file suit (they have). They may prevail. ACA may be unconstitutional anyway. But his statement smacked me between the eyes as crossing the line. I will stand up for Catholics and their right to private worship and how they run their own business. Besides, if some Catholic worker wants to get birth control for family , they will not file it through the Church. They would discretely obtain it.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

6 Replies

  • Michael Weiss 3 months ago In August, the ACA 2010 required al...

  • George Thomas 3 months ago Did you mean to give a different re...

  • Ben Poole 3 months ago George, No, I was showing that the ...

In August, the ACA 2010 required all insurance companies to provide no-copay/no-deductible contraceptives to women covered by their plans.

The ruling applies to all religions not just the RCC. And Obama exempted all churches RE worship from covering their employees.

You may be right about the sociocultural realities of RC workers, but I'm sure a non-RC woman beneficiary wouldn't hesitate to get her BC through her religious-organization employer. This is precisely why the courts have ruled against religious organizations being exempt from the state's contraceptive equity laws--these are women who have no belief in the RCC dogma.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Did you mean to give a different reference. The one above (ending in 27834) doesn't provide statement by the President. There is a brief statement by Secretary Sebellius.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

George, No, I was showing that the wording is in the law. Its not the law (well separate issue) and the reason I posted the link. It is Obama. The outrage is a direct assault on the Catholic Church who provides to the poor and all other social services. This is not a health issue like Polio. Even Mark Shields who is a stanch liberal is against this. Here is a short discussion about it among popular pundits:

http://newsbusters.org/blogs/brad-wilmouth/2012/02/04/liberal-mark-shields-hits-obama-pressing-catholic-employers-provide-b

The issue has drawn a line in the sand that Obama cares nothing for the Constitution or about separation of Church and State. Muslims are outraged as it is against their religion. This issue is very divisive.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

You're right, they wouldn't file it through the church, they would get it from their health care provider just like anyone else. Just like workers at Catholic institutions in the majority of the states do.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Scoff at anyone's faith all you want. You have no right to interfere with it. To force or compel them to do something that which is against their religion.

What is wrong with you people? Do you not understand separation of religion and state? Have you guys even read Federal legal rulings?

The burden of proof is upon the state to show a compelling case. Good luck on doing that against Vatican decree over contraception that has stood for almost a hundred years. This is a direct assault on the Catholic faith. And the Islamic faith also. Islamic societies will enforce against it. Guess you want to start the religious war early. It is also against the Treaty of Tripoli.

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Treaty_of_Tripoli

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

I'm not scoffing at my own faith I assure you. And I'm telling you the rank and file Catholics do not agree with this. 98% of Catholics have used contraception. 28 states already mandate this and don't exempt the church like the new federal law does. No one on the right said a damn thing about it till they thought they could make political hay out of it. The right doesn't care about Catholics. This is a Catholic issue which will get resolved in due time. Eventually the church will get with the times, slowly as it always does.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Religious institutions can control their own internal affairs, This is about church owned facilities like hospitals, not the church itself. The church is exempt.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Georgetown is an excellent school and are on the right side of this issue. The RCC bishops are wrong on this issue just like they were wrong on pedophiles! The Catholic bishops do not speak for Catholics like me that fully support no-copay contraceptive coverage and 77% of RCC women agree with me. The ruling doesn't apply to organizations directly involved in worship and is forcing no one to use BC. Additionally, the ruling applies to all religions, not just RCC. The courts have always overruled the RCC when it has sued to be exempt them from state's contraception equity laws and SCOTUS has refused to hear an appeal b/c there are people who work for religious organizations that aren't RC. It's ridiculous to argue that women who work -CNP

  • Mic this! 4
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

2 Replies

  • Michael Weiss 3 months ago for RCC organizations should have t...

for RCC organizations should have to go through any more trouble to get their health care needs met, than I'd have to go through to get a flu shot. It's not fair and the 28 states that have contraceptive equity laws recognize that and the courts have upheld those laws. On the topic of STIs, the RCC is against the use of condoms or any other barrier method for contraceptive or health reasons including HIV transmission.
On the topic of separation of church and state, these organizations are not seminaries or churches. They get federal, state, and local funds for their services. They have contracts with the federal government. They provide health care insurance. They recruit and hire non-RCC people. They shouldn't be allowed to discriminate!!

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

1 Replies

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago How exactly is it discrimination? ...

How exactly is it discrimination?

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Btw, birth control pills don't prevent STD's (an epidemic in this country). Maybe if the pill wasn't given out like candy, these young women would be buying a condom at the local drug store for a fraction of the cost, and protecting themselves from STD's.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

First let me say that I'm very much pro-choice. This will mark the first time I have ever argued in favor of limiting the choices of women.

Having said that, I am forced to disagree with this article. The state has no business telling religious entities what they must do for their congregations. Religious freedom is religious freedom. I've heard it said that in a free country, everyone has the right to be as stupid as they wish. This would qualify as one of those times.

If birth control is important to a woman going to college, then by all means she should go to a college that provides it. If she chooses to go to a religious college then she should probably observe the religious tenets they teach. Despite his heart being in the right place, Obama has no business forcing contraception on these colleges. A religious exemption is the right path.

  • Mic this! 8
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

29 Replies

  • Zaid A. Zaid 3 months ago This new rule tells Catholic instit...

  • Avantika Krishna 3 months ago Freedom of religion doesn't me...

  • Zaid A. Zaid 3 months ago From Today's Slate: Most C...

This new rule tells Catholic institutions nothing about what they must do for their congregations. It tells them what must be made available under their health care insurance.

If an institution wishes to operate in the United States, it must abide by U.S. law.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

13 Replies

  • Thaelman Urgelles 3 months ago Yes Mr. Zaid, but the U.S. law has ...

  • Darwin Long 3 months ago "This new rule tells Catholic ...

Yes Mr. Zaid, but the U.S. law has never being destructive of other people's religious beliefs. This is what makes the U.S. so different from, let say, France, a militant atheistic state. What you don't want to see is that yielding on this is extremely humiliating, because it hurts one of the basic laws of all Abrahamic religions, including the Church: "You shall not commit adultery". If women and men decide to commit adultery it is under their own responsibility. If women and men decide to go to a Catholic school it is under their own responsibility. Asking the Church to fulfill a role destructive to its basic mission and reason for existence is a blatant abuse from the Obama's French-like atheistic administration.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

5 Replies

  • Zaid A. Zaid 3 months ago The Catholic Church will survive....

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago Is that the new standard for religi...

  • Michael Weiss 3 months ago I'm not sure the RCC will surv...

The Catholic Church will survive.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Is that the new standard for religious freedom in this country?

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

I'm not sure the RCC will survive with their debacle with pedophiles, lack of equality for women, policies against LGBTs and policies against healthy sexuality.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

That's the beauty of America. Nobody is forcing you to follow the Catholic church. We are just asking the nation, which was partly founded upon the notion of freedom of religion, to respect the right of religious entities to follow their own beliefs.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

I agree that religious institutions should be given more freedom than this ruling does, particularly if there is a way to separate federal dollars from dollars donated to the church, but do you really think that a major use of contraceptives is to promote adultery? Did you mean fornication? I'd agree that facilitating sex out of wedlock is a major reason people use contraceptives.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

"This new rule tells Catholic institutions nothing about what they must do for their congregations."

That statement is patently inaccurate. The students at religious colleges ARE congregations of that religion. In serving their students, they are serving their congregations. This demands that the religion in question supply contraception to their congregation through their insurance. Once again, the religious exemption should be put in place.

Requiring insurance companies to provide coverage for contraception is a good idea. Requiring religious organizations to purchase that coverage in violation of their religious tenets is NOT a good idea.

Put the religious exemption in place.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

6 Replies

  • Ben Poole 3 months ago When one guts tenets of faith which...

  • Zaid A. Zaid 3 months ago I attended a Catholic university. ...

  • Ben Poole 3 months ago Zaid, I'm not a Catholic nor w...

When one guts tenets of faith which is now directly pitting the US against the Vatican, that is not only dangerous but incorrect. People have a choice. They don't have to go to a Catholic School. They don't have to work there. Other tenants of law that the Catholic church must obey are not precluded by the Church. This is different and is an assault on the edges of those beliefs just like Obama assaults the Constitution. How can anyone support this tyrant? He thinks he is king. People do not have a right to force other people against their beliefs. You can't force the Christian Scientists to take medication even if it saves their life but you force them to buy drug coverage. That is insane and just goes to show the ridiculousness of Obama.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

I attended a Catholic university. I am not Catholic. I in no way ever considered myself part of the Catholic congregation.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Zaid, I'm not a Catholic nor went to a Catholic school. It is the right to personal belief. It has to do with those who believe it is sacrosanct in their beliefs that whatever is issued by Papal degree the issue is closed for discussion for them. That is their right. Their belief.

US Muslim's clerics have also been outraged. The Baptists are fired up. When Obama crossed the line there is nothing good about it. How hard would it be to offer religious institutional waiver? We are talking about a small number of individual's coverage over not covering contraceptives. That is nothing in the big scheme of things. Doubt it would make their payment go down more than $.10/mo Why are we having to have a discussion over it? Obama created this issue

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

"I in no way ever considered myself part of the Catholic congregation."

And yet you have voluntarily subjected yourself to catholic rules and regulations by attending a catholic school, and now you want to change the rules of the school, or at least you want someone else to change them, and you refuse to see their right to set their own religious rules.

I like Obama, I like the ACA and I like the requirement of covering the cost of contraceptives under insurance. But I also recognize the rights of religious people (I'm not one) to choose NOT to support what I consider to be an intelligent choice. Its their college, they are free to operate it under their rules. You are free to choose another college if you don't like their rules.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

It is worth repeating Michael Weiss's link from above:

https://sites.google.com/site/healthcareeducationproject2012/home/preventive-care/pro-choice-catholics-letter

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Zaid,

As I stated to some Muslims, who I disagree with but greatly respect, be reconciled within the religion. Not have civil society intervene. I directly asked Islam to address their silence on the horrendous acts committed in its name internally. I don't have a voice there; nor should I. But no one should cross the line in either direction. Let beliefs be. Exempt, walk around, make different choices, but don't cross the line. Let it be sacrosanct.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Freedom of religion doesn't mean that religious people or organizations should be exempt from governmental rules. It's same idea behind the Peyote case. Smoking illegal drugs was part of their custom, but it was illegal by the government and religions are not higher than law and order. Though contraception isn't a basic right yet, thats what this President Obama's rules is trying to establish. Contraception should be a basic right, the same way we're entitled to water and other basic necessities. By exempting religious organizations we show that religions have more control over an individual's body than the individual him/herself. With this rule, the government is trying to ensure that we have and maintain those rights.

  • Mic this! 3
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

3 Replies

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago Really? Where does the Constitutio...

Really? Where does the Constitution say each citizen has a "right" to free birth control? In fact, the Constitution doesn't even establish a right to water, food, clothing, shelter, warmth. . . .

If you have a right to these basics, that means others have a duty to provide them to you free of charge. When did I become obligated to work for your benefit?

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

2 Replies

  • Avantika Krishna 3 months ago Actually, as a member of the United...

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago As I indicated above, we provide th...

Actually, as a member of the United Nations, we upload the Universal Declaration of Human Rights.
We do have a right to health, water, shelters, etcetera.
As a government, why do we provide social security, and public water fountains, or public spaces with warmth?
These things, though not written in our constitutions are basic rights in this country. Birth Control is on that path. The constitution also doesn't say that we shouldn't be discriminated against because of race, ethnicity, sexual orientation, age etcetera but the right to not be discriminated against is guaranteed.

Same principle.
No one's asking you to use that birth control thats provided, its just an option.. that should be made available to anyone who needs it.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

As I indicated above, we provide those basic necessities to the needy out of benevolence; not b/c they are entitled to free stuff as a right.

If I want to sit home and do nothing all day; do you have the obligation to pay for all my basic necessities? If I have the right to a basic existence; the answer would be yes.

In reality, you have no "right" to any of these basics. They could be taken away tomorrow with the twirl of a pen. Why? B/c there is no right to any of these basic needs found anywhere in the constitution.

If Congress were to get rid of Social Security, Medicare, Medicaid, Food Stamps, Federal Housing, etc. . . tomorrow- and you people were on the streets claiming they had a right to all of these free goods- they would be out of luck. There isn't a court in the land that would find in their favor.

There is a very real difference between "rights" and wants. You may want me to pay for your contraception, but you have no "right" to force me to do so.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

From Today's Slate:

Most Catholics Support Co-Pay-Free Contraception -- Despite the church's vocal opposition to the requirement for employer-provided health care.

The Public Religion Research Institute found that 55% of Americans, and 58% of self-identified Catholics, agree that employers should be required to provide their employees with health care plans that cover contraception and birth control at no cost. This more controversial part which affects Catholic-owned hospitals, schools, and other religious institutions that serve the general public, is also supported by a majority of Catholics in the new poll: 52% believe these institutions should not fall under a religious exemption.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

3 Replies

  • Darwin Long 3 months ago If they don't want to follow t...

If they don't want to follow the tenets of their church, then why are they Catholics?

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

2 Replies

  • Michael Weiss 3 months ago Why do young adults drink the same ...

  • Darwin Long 3 months ago Because its there...

Why do young adults drink the same Scotch as their fathers?

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Because its there

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Catholics shouldn't be forced into covering contraception? More like women shouldn't be forced to make the choice you describe. It's insulting. You know what they will choose.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

DL: Are you RC?

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

1 Replies

  • Darwin Long 3 months ago Not knowing what RC is I cannot ans...

Not knowing what RC is I cannot answer

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

DL: Are you RC?

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

3 Replies

  • Darwin Long 3 months ago If RC is Roman Catholic, the answer...

If RC is Roman Catholic, the answer is an emphatic NO.

I'm a "born again atheist"

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

2 Replies

  • Michael Weiss 3 months ago I should have been specific but RC ...

  • Darwin Long 3 months ago Thanks Michael - That ruling makes ...

I should have been specific but RC and RCC was so ubiquitous in the thread that I took the liberty. The RCC has organizations associated with worship and sacraments (special rites that mark certain commitments (marriage/priesthood) and others that bestow "grace" on the communicant). These organizations and their employees are exempt from the ACA requirements to provide BC as part of their health insurance under the HHS ruling. Now the other RCC organizations aren't associated with worship and include hospitals, schools, charity organizations that employee both RC-laity, RC nuns/priests, and non-RC people. These organizations, like in 28 states w/ equity, are required to comply with the ACA requirement to provide no-copay contraceptives.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Thanks Michael - That ruling makes perfect sense to me.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

I agree contraception should be available but not sure it should be paid for by the Catholic church

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

4 Replies

  • Zaid A. Zaid 3 months ago And therein lies the problem. Alth...

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago No Catholic is saying it shouldn�...

And therein lies the problem. Although now, it is no longer a problem.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

No Catholic is saying it shouldn't be available. We are saying that Catholic Universities and Hospitals shouldn't have to provide health insurance that pays for contraception considering it runs contrary to religious teachings. It's outrageous!

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

2 Replies

  • Tarek Mostafa 3 months ago What about the consumers? Isn'...

  • No longer with us
  • 3 months ago

This account has been disabled.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

1 Replies

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago "Some" guidelines? Our i...

"Some" guidelines? Our insurance in NY has skyrocketed over the past 10 yrs due in large part b/c of a boatload of mandates. I can't buy a simple, catastrophic plan. I have to buy an outrageously expensive soup to nuts plan, with a huge deductible so I can pay for all kinds of things I won't need in a million years. Why? So I can subsidize others.


As for the consumers' rights? Those consumers made the choice to work for or attend a Catholic enterprise. They should have been well aware of what that entails.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Mr. Zaid, I disagree. The state has already intruded too much in religion's business. Only because the West is all corrupt (at least from the Christian vantage point) doesn't mean that religions should join the secular trend. It's a complete abuse from the government.

If women want to receive the pills as part of their students health insurance, well, don't go to Catholic schools. It was their personal decision to go to those institutions. What you will accomplish is a policy of restricting admission. The Catholic Church's business is their people's spiritual health. This is most essential, and it is what you secularists don't understand! Women's body health is under their own responsibility, not the Church. The world is going crazy!

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

2 Replies

  • Zaid A. Zaid 3 months ago Catholic schools have one year to i...

  • Avantika Krishna 3 months ago If the Catholic Church's busin...

Catholic schools have one year to implement the new policy, which gives those institutions time to find a way to ensure that they comply with the law.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

If the Catholic Church's business is their people's spiritual health, why is it involving itself in matters of the body?
If its a women's responsibility why is the Church getting involved and espousing its ideals?

The government has to step in because the Church is already involved.
Its a vicious cycle isn't it...

Additionally, not everyone has a choice about where they go to school.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

So now it's good government policy to force religious entities to ignore their deeply held religious beliefs? What a wonderful world we live in. Our founding fathers are rolling over in their collective graves.

If you think this isn't going to hurt Obama in 2012; you're sadly mistaken. Catholics are outraged; and rightly so.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

17 Replies

  • Zaid A. Zaid 3 months ago The Obama administration made the r...

  • Zaid A. Zaid 3 months ago Some new polling for you one who th...

The Obama administration made the right choice on a politically charged issue. Everyone is not going to be happy about any decision that any administration makes. But this is the right decision for women's health.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

13 Replies

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago Would you be happy if the gov'...

Would you be happy if the gov't forced you to disobey your deeply held religious convictions?

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

12 Replies

  • Zaid A. Zaid 3 months ago 98% of Catholic women use contracep...

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 3 months ago I don't care if it's 99.9...

  • Zaid A. Zaid 3 months ago The Catholic Church does not always...

98% of Catholic women use contraception. The Obama administration has taken their deeply held religious convictions into account.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

I don't care if it's 99.9% of Catholic women use contraception. If the Catholic church doesn't want to provide the coverage for religious reasons, they shouldn't have to.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

The Catholic Church does not always get to decide what it can and cannot do.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

I am not saying they can do whatever they like. I am saying they should be allowed to follow their own religious teachings at their own privately owned facilities.

If you don't like it, there's a very simple solution: Don't attend a Catholic university or go to a Catholic hospital.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

This debate highlights one of the biggest problems with our employer provided healthcare system. If everyone owned their own policy this would not be an issue and we would be much better off.

But that's not our system. We have a system of minimum guidelines controlled by states and (now) federal government. Unless we change the system completely, everyone must adhere to the same minimum standards, including church owned organizations.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

You had it right in the first paragraph. These "minimum" guidelines are anything but. I now pay $1200 per month for my plan, with a $1500 deductible per person in my family. Why is it so expensive? B/c everyone has to have a soup to nuts; one size fits all plan in NY state.

Is it really too much to ask to allow Catholic entities to offer plans w/o coverage for birth control and morning after pills? Everyone is always whining about the Catholic church trying to impose it's views on others. In this instance, they are simply trying to follow their own doctrine at their own private enterprises. It's the gov't that is trying to impose its beliefs on the Catholic church.

I am shocked anyone could support this policy. This policy should offend every freedom loving American; not just Catholics.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Your shock is not shared by the majority of states in the Union. Twenty-eight states already require health insurance plans for entities operating in their states to cover contraception.

  • Mic this! 3
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

From Today's Slate:

Most Catholics Support Co-Pay-Free Contraception -- Despite the church's vocal opposition to the requirement for employer-provided health care.

The Public Religion Research Institute found that 55% of Americans, and 58% of self-identified Catholics, agree that employers should be required to provide their employees with health care plans that cover contraception and birth control at no cost. This more controversial part which affects Catholic-owned hospitals, schools, and other religious institutions that serve the general public, is also supported by a majority of Catholics in the new poll: 52% believe these institutions should not fall under a religious exemption.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Such a plan would also stand to save a significant sum by hiring unlicensed physicians. Medical decisions could be driven by opinions and feelings instead of a scientifically informed education. Religious freedom should be protected in healthcare, but at an individual, not institutional, level.

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Hmm what about Catholics who have sex?
Are they not Catholics because they choose to use contraception?
Are they not entitled to the same rights and health protection as other people?
Should they be penalized for being Catholic and having sex?
Maybe as a Catholic you want to work at Catholic university/hospital or attend one... should contraception be the deterrent that stops you?

You know theres a problem when people start choosing their schools because of the health care services provided instead of the academics offered.
Goes to show that health care shouldn't be an issue that causes so many issues.
Colleges are places to learn not institutions to deal with politics and religion debates.

  • Mic this! 3
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

But the church already is in 28 states and has been for some time. Why the sudden uproar over something its already doing? Especially since the new federal law respects the church more than the states do, by exempting the church where the states don't. But suddenly its an issue. Now what could be making it an issue this year....hmmm....

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

"You know theres a problem when people start choosing their schools because of the health care services provided instead of the academics offered."

That's the key in my opinion and something that is being overlooked. Churches are exempt. Period. Places of business that churches fund are not.

  • Mic this! 2
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

Some new polling for you one who this hurts in the election:

"Catholic Voters More Likely To Punish Romney for Position on Birth Control Coverage"

http://www.religiondispatches.org/dispatches/sarahposner/5660/pollster%3A_catholic_voters_more_likely_to_punish_romney_for_position_on_birth_control_coverage/

  • Mic this! 1
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

2 Replies

  • David Gray 3 months ago A poll conducted by Planned Parenth...

A poll conducted by Planned Parenthood is as credible on this topic as a glass of sweat tea arguing for sugar subsidies...

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!

1 Replies

  • Zaid A. Zaid 3 months ago Yet, somehow, it's still credi...

Yet, somehow, it's still credible.

  • Mic this! 0
  • Reply
char limit
Please wait before posting another comment to this article. Thanks!
Join PolicyMic

What is PolicyMic?