U.S. Wrongly Demonizes Iran, But Ignores Nuclear Weapons Countries India, Pakistan, and Israel

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Iran, nuclear weapons, India, Pakistan

U.S. Wrongly Demonizes Iran, But Ignores Nuclear Weapons Countries India, Pakistan, and Israel

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U.S. foreign policy is obsessed with demonizing Iran. It has been since the pro-American Shah was popularly overthrown in 1979. From instigating wars to military attacks and the present economic sanctions, the American government seems hell-bent on punishing a society who revolted against a pro-American despot. Our latest move — the economic sanctions — is ostensibly in direct response to Iran’s continued pursuit of nuclear technology. However, given the very low likelihood of an Iranian preemptive attack, and other countries that pose more of a potential threat to international peace, the U.S. should be focusing its nonproliferation efforts elsewhere.

As with any country that is attempting to develop its nuclear technology, Iran should be monitored. But the current U.S. policies are completely unwarranted. Iran has not preemptively attacked another country in over a century, and has made no indications that it plans to change this pattern anytime soon. The Iranian government understands it is vastly outmatched by the U.S. and Israeli armed forces, which would pose an existential threat to Iran in any armed conflict. Much of the war mongering in the media, which as of late has switched from “if” to “when” Israel will attack Iran, points to the oft-quoted line by Iranian President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad in which he said Israel should be “wiped off the map.” However, what Ahmadinejad said in Persian was actually meant to imply that the Israeli regime should be dismantled, a far cry from all-out war.

Instead of focusing on Iran, the U.S. should pragmatically turn its eye to three nuclear powers that have not signed the Nuclear Nonproliferation Treaty (NPT): Israel, India, and Pakistan. In contrast with Iran, Israel has started a number of wars, including two within the last six years. While it has been attacked, most notably during the October War of 1973, Israel is guilty of invading other countries on numerous occasions. During its last two wars alone, Israel killed around 2,000 civilians in Southern Lebanon and the Gaza Strip, not including its numerous isolated attacks on Gaza. And now, war drums are beating amongst the Israeli defense brass for its next offensive, targeting Iran. When one objectively looks at who will be more likely to use a nuclear device in the near future, Israel seems a more likely candidate.

Both India and Pakistan are also nuclear powers that are currently engaged in a bitter war of (mostly) words, mainly concerning the disputed territory of Kashmir. While there has not been serious conflict between these two countries in some time, they are two additional states with nuclear weapons that are not NPT signatories (the last is North Korea), and definitely warrant more concern and pressure from the U.S. government than does Iran.

If it wants to have a logically-consistent international policy in an effort to limit nuclear proliferation, it would make more sense for the U.S. to shift its focus towards the nuclear powers of Israel, India and Pakistan that have not signed the NPT, rather than Iran, which has signed the NPT, and whose nuclear weapons program is very much in doubt.

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Karl Lindemann

After graduating from Tufts University, Karl spent a year in Syria studying Arabic. He slipped out just before the entire country exploded in upr...

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Deepak Chandan

I think equating the nuclear capabilities of volatile countries such as Pakistan and Iran with those of stable democracies such as India and Israel is a little unhelpful.

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Iran and NNTP are two different case.

It is Idi Amin then and now Mahmoud Ahmadinejad who is devil this is the point.

We must save peoples freedom in Iran. This should be focus.

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Which Idiot advised Islam to move in Land of Jews were jews lived happily for centuries before Islam started.
Who told to spread Islamic culture in the land of Hindus, Protestants , Jains , Sikhs, Parcies , Shivisams and Sikhs? I think the Islamic revolution is cause of all war. Jihad is cause .

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  • Michael Luciano 3 months ago Hitler asked a similar question abo...

Hitler asked a similar question about the Jewish diaspora in Europe.

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Pakistan wanted to nuke India in 1999 so India had to test Nuclear bomb.
no Idea about Iran but Mahmoud Ahmadinejad is dangerous has he stated they would attack Israel and has support of china and Pakistan. They will convert all people to Islam, by killing all men of other religions , and get wifes.

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This opinion piece is based on the assumption that the US is still some kind of policing force for good in the world, albeit misguided. Nothing is further from the truth. It is simply lip service, convincing only to those who look little further than a catchy headline and a one minute news story.

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Its refreshing to see part of the conversation redirected towards the standing obligations on countries which haven't signed the global nuclear proliferation treaty (after all, this makes the most sense if nuclear conflict iswhat we're most concerned about.)

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US has cunningly supported & never discussed the ISREALI NUCLEAR WEAPONS PROGRAM but it now is throwing every stone in IRANIAN path to hijack its nuclear program. Equally dangerous policy had been adopted to provide INDIA easy access to nuclear technology while depriving PAKISTAN from it.

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I'd be careful of how you use the word, "despot." The Iranians exchanged one despot for another. It started immediately, including the cutting off women's lips for wearing lipstick; imprisonment and torture of those opposed to Khomeini; and public execution of women who violated the sexual mores of the new Iran. The despotism has continued to this date and is particularly targeted at women and the press. I wouldn't believe anything that comes out of the official channels of Iran. Regarding Iran's nuclear weapon program, again you are mistaken. We know that they have purchased weapon-only technology! Again you're wrong in Israel's nuc program and US thoughts--we never wanted Israel, Pak or India to get a nuc and our policies are consistent.

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Spot-on... Consistency, what a novel concept! The U.S. and U.K. has consistently been a negative influence in the Middle East, but that doesn't count.

We need to ask ourselves, who is actually more likely to use a nuke? Probably India, Pakistan, Israel. Maybe the U.S. Or a terr'ist. North Korea is crazy enough to do it, but its doubtful. They and Iran are just using the tech. as a bargaining chip, even they know how dumb a first strike would be.

The Israel lobby in D.C. is probably more dangerous than the ayatollahs.

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Again all y'all are off in the tactical weeds and not thinking strategically - the way the Chinese, Indians, Iranians and Pakistanis think. All of those cultures/countries trace their histories back for thousands of years and they can afford to wait; to dissemble; to throw out chaff; to say one thing for internal consumption and to play a long game internationally.

Use your little gray cells, fellahs.

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Iran isn't a regional threat, it's a global reality, one of the many ascending world factors the US & Co. is going to have to evolve a more sophisticated, reasonable method of interacting with if it wants to maintain its present privileges of comfort and security for its citizens.
The fundamentalist, non-secular regime controlling Iran is no more alarming or threatening to peace than at least one of America's abounding two voting options.

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Consistency across time and space is not what foreign policy is about. It's about advancing national interests. Israel and India possessing nukes is not currently perceived as a threat to American interests. Your article would benefit from spelling out how exactly these states might threaten those interests. You start to do it with the discussion of the Lebanon war but the connection could be clearer. As to the U.S. and NPT: obvi we apply that criterion selectively. Always have.

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  • Wrolf Bronesby 3 months ago it's unfortunate that national...

it's unfortunate that national interests don't correlate with a set of genuinely held virtues. it's more unfortunate that those interests concern nothing more than material and martial advantages. worst has to be that as policy they're proclaimed as if they ARE advancing some consistent virtue. i do agree with you that the article could benefit from further articulation on its object.

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Karl, I was with you until the third paragraph. We part company when you start picking other nations who should be getting the same treatment instead of Iran.
Perhaps if the individuals who govern the U.S. were capable of at least maintaining or even improving the standard of living, quality of life and freedoms of the majority of those living under their jurisdiction instead of just the chosen few, there might be a case for believing they could do the same elsewhere. Instead we have a Congress that has all but opted out and an administration and military that virtually ignores national issues while it meddles uninvited, unwelcome and ineffectively in almost every corner of the globe.

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I'll start with this: the Israeli people are our allies, but the Israeli government is making a mockery of the notion of "the only democracy in the middle east". They're nuts.

That being said, this story is way off. Why would we worry about Israel or India's nuclear weapons program......? What's your argument exactly? "Well....like...there's like other nuclear bombs and stuff. So there." Ok...

Is the Iran threat is exaggerated by neocons? Sure.

But this is a volatile and serious situation. I'm against a war in Iran or any war in that region. Every time someone makes a clownish Ron Paul-esque argument like "We're being mean to Iran!", you weaken the anti-war movement by association.

With friends like these...

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  • Ethan Case 3 months ago israel isn't nuts. go there an...

israel isn't nuts. go there and see for yourself. its a totally different world there.

the country is only 64 years old. there are people still alive in that country who remember the time before israel, when jews were routinely attacked by muslims, and there was no 'evil' israel to justify it. lets not forget that israel had only been a country for a few hours when every arab country attacked them, hardly enough time to build up a 'evil' reputation. they hadn't done anything yet.

suicide bombs and rocket attacks are routine there. those rockets don't always land in nowhere, sometimes they hit apartment buildings. they hit a school bus that had just dropped off 26 children only minutes earlier once. they are backed into a corner.

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  • Paul Anderson 3 months ago I apologize in advance. I've d...

  • Wrolf Bronesby 3 months ago israeli government is nuts, and des...

I apologize in advance. I've decided to stop being polite:

Your comment is STUPID. But not just because it misunderstands my comment (which expresses my affection for the Israeli people - an affection that - for personal reasons that I won't discuss - is unwavering).

Your comment is stupid because you said that "suicide bombs are routine there".

Here's my advice to you: Don't ever discuss IP issues again. Not until you actually read some news articles. You might read up on suicide bombs. And you might also open a dictionary and look up the word "routine".

Again - I apologize. I'm an ass. But can anyone actually read more than 5 articles per year on the IP conflict? Please?


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  • Ethan Case 3 months ago from 01 and 09, there have been rou...

  • Ethan Case 3 months ago Ever go on birthright? Your name is...

  • Seth Green 3 months ago Ethan, I actually have been on birt...

from 01 and 09, there have been roughly 8,600 rocket attacks on israel. that is an average of 3 per day.

there have been 143 suicide bombing attacks in israel from 01 to 08. granted some years were heavier than others, but that comes out to 1.5/month. slightly less routine than receiving a paycheck (2/month)

1100 israeli's killed from 2000-05. 981 were civilians. that is roughly 1 every other day. granted again, some days saw more than others.

border clashes are also daily occurrences. frequently they strap bombs to donkeys or what not and send them towards the fences then blow them up. then two ride in on a motorcycle. one drives, one fires an rpg at first target he sees, then they ride out before idf can respond. source: buddy in IDF

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Ever go on birthright? Your name is Paul so I will assume you're not Jewish and that you haven't, forgive me if I'm mistaken. They assign a 24/7 security detail to us consisting of armed guards and IDF medics. They never use public transportation. They are ushered from event to event in tight groups with handlers, even though everyone there isn't a kid, but between the ages of 18 and 26.

You have no idea who you are talking to. You have no idea who my family is, or what my connection to Israel is. Do not assume that because you studied politics in school you are somehow an expert. Half the problem is there are too many experts who think they know what the score is. you'll notice i don't usually post in IP topics. this is why.

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Ethan, I actually have been on birth right (and careful about the names/Jewish thing, I would never have assumed a person named Ethan was Jewish)-the level of security there has a lot to do with the concerns of American Jews (our parents in particular!) and less to do with the changing security situation. they definitely play it safe. Truth is suicide bombs have declined dramatically since 2008. http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Terrorism-+Obstacle+to+Peace/Palestinian+terror+since+2000/Suicide+and+Other+Bombing+Attacks+in+Israel+Since.htm Paul's right: it's not accurate to call them routine any longer. They were at one point. Not today by any means.

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"But can anyone actually read more than 5 articles per year on the IP conflict? " - Yes. At least twice that many a month.

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"You have no idea who you are talking to. You have no idea who my family is" Hahahaha. Nice. OMG. You went on birthright?! You're, like, totally an objective expert. Did you enjoy the security facade that allows your handlers to escort you to see only the things and people they want you to? And that top secret intel from your "buddy in the IDF" is precious. The next time you're in the area you should try driving through the West Bank with a Palestinian license plate.

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I was on a different program and they were significantly more lax about security. You're right that suicide bombings are no longer routine. But I think we're criticizing his argument on a technicality and missing the bigger point. Israelis feel far more vulnerable than we in the West imagine them to be, and that at least needs to be taken into account before dismissing them as "irrational."

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What most don't realize is that there are two predominate religions on each side facing off with one another in the guise of governments because this issue spreads across borders through religion to encompass the globe I see desires for blood running in the streets and I am sad for mankind. But, I know self-fulling prophesy on each side and from the "unbelievers" by both standpoint. I've never been Muslim or Jew though I have studied both. Yet, the Christians siding with the Jews through Paul onward to John to write the end of the world and heaven. I must be a stranger in a strange land in all books. To them, Ladies and Gentlemen after you but don't expect me to follow. Each has free will but don' kill us all. It is that major of an issue

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israeli government is nuts, and deserves its evil reputation (plenty of reasonable people suffer that gov't, much like in the US, but fundamentalists are continually voted into power). did you ever get to the other side of the wall on your birthright holiday? you can cite numbers about the admittedly reprehensible loss of israeli civilian life, but then don't neglect to mention that palestinians die at a rate 6X that at the hands of the idf.

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  • Ben Poole 3 months ago Wrolf, Also, don't forget a...

Wrolf,

Also, don't forget about the poverty that is caused on the Palestinians by Israel while all Muslims of all nations hate them. There's nothing good about hating or imprisonment. Yet, borders have opened and a respite of violence while still awaiting the cry of "all death to Jews". This is a religious war of genocide against the Jews and they fighting for survival. The image and importance of the religious conflict overwhelms any state actors in general. It is the reason for US support of the Jews without AIPAC here. Genocide is non negotiable. Israel is surrounded by annihilation.

There are many who want the world to end. "It is written" - is a self-fulfilling prophesy.

NO

We did not start this but we will fight back against any.

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One cannot conclude that because certain countries other then Iran have not signed the NPT and have present day conflicts that Iran is less a threat then it seems. Which is the greater threat? India and Pakistan arguing over Kashmir (still) or an extremist regime with nuclear weapons?

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How many times are we going to read another story about how Iran is being abused by the U.S., Israel and the global community? Every story, it seems, recites the same justification about an Iranian nuclear weapon- it hasn't attacked anyone preemptively, it knows it will be destroyed if it uses a nuke, it was only kidding about its desire to obliterate Israel, a blockade of Hormuz was only a joke, its no big deal if Iran has a nuclear device and so on. Sorry, I don't buy it! The country is a menace to its neighbors, and they should continue to be treated like outcasts. For the one hundredth time, I'm not for an invasion but believe it should remain on the table. The global community should continue to ostracize and sanction Iran.

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  • Paul Anderson 3 months ago The Iran threat is serious and the ...

The Iran threat is serious and the situation is serious. But I'll quibble with one point here: the Hormuz threat was a "joke" in the sense that it was not ever credible. That was saber rattling that approached self-parody, ala Baghdad Bob.

Israel is making the situation worse through pointless belligerence, but I guess I'll give them the benefit of the doubt since they're a marginal democracy.

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This article suffers from serious lack of research. Iran has funded terrorists that have hijacked the sovereignty of Lebanon, waged a war on international shipping in the Gulf, threatened to do so again, and bombed nations throughout the Gulf, including US troops in Saudi Arabia. And the original interpretation of Ahmadinijad's statement actually came from the English translation posted on his own website. Israel, on the other hand, has never launched an unprovoked attack or threatened nuclear use.

Moreover, it neglects the role of the NPT, which Israel, India, and Pakistan haven't signed- but Iran has. If you allow international nuclear monitoring to be undermined, you open up the door to rapid proliferation everywhere.

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Why should India sign NPT? To legitimize discrimination? NPT deliberately grants specific countries more rights than others. India and China have a 1500-km disputed border, but NPT says that China has the right to possess nukes and aim them at India, while India can't do anything back. Forget that.

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Excellent article. It is about time someone brought the threat of actual nuclear powers to the table. Good job!

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  • Dennis Henry 3 months ago Has Israel acknowledged it has a nu...

Has Israel acknowledged it has a nuke? Isn't the threat of being nuked the reason Israel has not been overwhelmed by its neighbors. With Iran taking an active interest in So. Lebanon, turning a once majority Sunni and other population into a Majority Shi'ah and pro Hezbollah defacto state of So. Lebanon I would have to say that Iran is the biggest threat currently in the region. to think otherwise is just naive.

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  • Gary Sanford 3 months ago Israel hasn't declared it has ...

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I disagree with the article's as written though some of its non-interventionism stances I completely agree with. I disagree on non signatories of the NPT. Rule of law in treaties are that if you sign you abide by its terms. Thus, we can't expect those who have not agreed to be bound by the NPT. To force signing is as it is in any contract - null and void when done so under duress.

Iran is the issue. Consistency in breaking their promises is the problem. We should not use first strike against a potential threat but be prepared to meet any such attempted attack with overwhelming force. That is deterrence in defense. Don't wage war to prevent war.

The issues are possible religious war, NPT compliance, & US interventionism in the ME.

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Karl,
Your statements regarding Israel invading other nations and killing civilians in Lebanon and Gaza (which is not a country) are clearly off-base as you omit the circumstances namely Israel was being attacked by rockets from across its borders. You also state Israel has started "a number of wars" but don't name them.

Israel is the only country in the region who's right to exist as a nation is openly challenged. Rightfully so, they have a right to defend themselves. I am not saying Israel is blameless as I've made clear in other comments on PM.

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  • Zachary Taylor 3 months ago Let's see... War of Indepen...

  • Manar Hijaz 3 months ago Israel's right to exist has be...

Let's see...

War of Independence-- started by an invasion of Israel and genocidal attempt to completely destroy it
Suez crisis-- started by Nasser's blockade of Israeli shipping, an act of war.
6 Day War-- See above. Nasser was a slow learner.
Yom Kippur war-- surprise attack on Israel on its holiest day.
80s of Lebanon-- Lebanon refused to evict the PLO which was using its territory to wage attacks on Israel
Second invasion of Lebanon and Gaza- started by Hizbullah's cross-border raid to kidnap Israeli soldiers
Cast Lead- started by Hamas' refusal to renew the ceasefire and rocket attacks on Israeli cities

Israel had nukes since at least 73-- possibly before 67-- yet never threatened to use them. Even when Russia threatened to.

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  • Douglas Goodman 3 months ago Zachary, Thanks for adding....

  • Ben Poole 3 months ago Excuse me Zach. The first statement...

Zachary,
Thanks for adding.

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Excuse me Zach. The first statement is incorrect. Of those who love the United Nations, Israel is a creation of them as a country following WWII. The dispara of the Jewish People were made a nation. The Ottoman Empire lost the world war and the British gave up the area for the creation of Israel. Those are facts.

Nothing is different between the Suez Canal and the Straight of Hormoz. War is war. Blame the world. But I agree with you on Israel's nuclear ambition, not stated ,but they threaten no one unless they are threatened. Islam's way? Yet, it was Islam who lost through the Ottoman Empire the right of existence of Israel. They exist and are a peaceful nation unless attacked and then they bring hell with them in response. I would.

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Israel's right to exist has been "openly challenged" because their means of existence violates international law. Their method of existence include, but are not limited to, continual illegal annexation of Palestinian territory, annihilation of entire villages, murdering of civilians, siege of Gaza, imprisoning of innocent civilians including children (all which contravene U.N resolutions and international human rights laws). Of course, the usual

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21 Replies

  • Manar Hijaz 3 months ago response to Israel's belligere...

  • Douglas Goodman 3 months ago Manar, You don't say where yo...

  • Zachary Taylor 3 months ago Manar, Israel was attacked before i...

response to Israel's belligerent and atrocious attacks is that of self-dense. However, not only is Israel’s means of reprisal unwarranted and disproportionate their excuse of self-defense isn’t applicable. According to the International Court of Justice Israel cannot use Article 51 of the UN Charter (nothing can impair the right of a member of the UN to defend itself if an armed attack occurs by another state) because it has no relevance in this

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  • Manar Hijaz 3 months ago cases since Israel does not claim t...

cases since Israel does not claim that the attacks against it are imputable to a foreign State because Palestine isn’t considered a State. Furthermore, Israel cannot claim it engages in self-defense in a territory it occupies. Just saying…

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Manar,
You don't say where you were or the immediate circumstances were when Israeli soldiers aimed at your family, but that does shed light as to the basis of your opinion. As far as Israel's right to exist it came from the UN at the end of the British Mandate.

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  • Manar Hijaz 3 months ago Hi Douglas, The events took pla...

  • Manar Hijaz 3 months ago light on Israel's illegal mili...

  • Douglas Goodman 3 months ago Manar, Yes, thank you for answerin...

Hi Douglas,

The events took place on tel-Al-a'soor. It is a narrow road in between Al-Mazra'a Al-Sharquia and Silwaad (one of the main roads leading to Ramallah. Well that is before all the checkpoints). By the way, I base my opinion on facts and not personal anecdotes. That incident just spurred my educational path. I think I didn't make myself clear. I didn't mean to imply that Israel doesn't have a right to exist. Instead, I wanted to shed

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light on Israel's illegal military operations and how that pushes countries to challenge the methods they have used to "exist." I hope this clarifies thing.

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Manar,
Yes, thank you for answering and clarifying. I reread your comments in this light and now understand your intent. Israel is by no means blameless. If there is to be rational dialog leading to a lasting peace in the region, all sides must make some concessions. At the very least this means Israel must halt the settlements and the Palestinians must acknowledge Israel's right to exist. I believe this will get the two sides to the table where all the other issues can be dealt with. A mic to you for the discussion.

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You are welcome Douglas. Thanks for the mic. I agree our discussion deserved a mic :D

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You are welcome Douglas. Thanks for the mic. I agree our discussion deserved a mic :D

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Manar, Israel was attacked before it even declared independence. It's military policies are not the same as its "manner of existence."

The facts don't jive with your claim. Israel's actually ceded more sovereignty and territory to the Palestinian Authority over the last several years and has offered to commence negotiations unconditionally-- but the PA has refused. The Supreme Court has regularly interfered to make sure that the Army only detains combatants and does not wrongfully seize Palestinian property (even though Palestinians often claim territory they have no dead to, then claim their human rights have been violated), and the blockade on Gaza was to stop weapons shipments. Israel even ships free food into the strip.

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12 Replies

  • Paul Anderson 3 months ago It is with great amusement that I t...

  • Zachary Taylor 3 months ago LOL. I read Foreign Affairs constan...

  • Manar Hijaz 3 months ago Zachary, I'm sorry that yo...

It is with great amusement that I tell you that you have absolutely no understanding of the IP conflict. Please read some foreign policy briefs and gain a better understanding of what's happening. A good site is the International Crisis Group:

http://www.crisisgroup.org

I also recommend reading Foreign Affairs.

It may make me sound like a snob, but I'm getting tired of reading these silly pro-Israel or pro-Palestine arguments. But the worst is the tiresome "both sides have made mistakes and need to come to the table!" posts. Ugh. People need to educate themselves or maybe talk about something else.

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LOL. I read Foreign Affairs constantly, am an IR major, and have lived in the region. The only thing amusing here is your attempt to talk down to me.

It's obviously hard to make arguments and nuance them properly when you have these infernal character limits. You can't assume that because something was left out the poster is ignorant of it. (Explaining the situation behind the blockade of Gaza properly and the tweaks made to the humanitarian exemptions would probably take a page of text.) But simply insulting someone's knowledge without presenting any kind of counter-argument contributes nothing. I recommend actually putting content in your posts, rather than complaints.

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Zachary,

I'm sorry that you have been brainwashed by Israel's usual propaganda. How can negotiations resume as Israel continues to occupy Palestinian territories illegally (more recently in Jerusalem, which the U.S has condemned). Please tell me that you were kidding about the Army not seizing Palestinian property. Palestinians do not claim anything. The property they have lived on has been their ancestors property for years. Israel has used n

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numerous methods to occupy the homes of Palestinians and replace them with Jewish settlers. One of these popular methods is the so called "voluntary transfer" (proposed by Michael Kleiner). This method provides Palestinians with immigration incentives so that they can be tricked into leaving their homes and then are refused the right to return. Furthermore, laws like the Building and Construction Law of 1965 has refused to grant building permit

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to so-called illegal Palestinian buildings while illegal Jewish buildings are not met with the same regulation. More than 150 villages fall outside of this laws plans but they enjoy full services. Moreover, home demolitions never apply to illegal Jewish homes. Haim Miller openly admitted that he used to sign demolition orders only for Arab homes (you can research this if you would like and I can suggest some books as well). The Israeli Committee

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Against House Demolitions brings up many of these points. Israel cannot just say it wants negotiations without acting on their statements. Israel's intentions have been far from honest. Israel continually blocks the flow of humanitarian aid for so-called "security purposes." But I'm not sure how aid and relief supplies from the UN is considered a security threat.

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Apologies. And I truly mean this.

I misunderstood your rather boilterplate arguments as those of an ignorant person. In truth, you're a partisan on these issues - one who has lived in the region. So I respect that...

Let me ask you this. And I ask this as someone who was an unwavering (and rather one-sided) supporter of Israel until about 3 years ago (and as someone who will side with the Israeli PEOPLE still - despite their government)......

Do you acknowledge that the Israeli government has moved to the Right in an unprecedented fashion?

Also - since you're an expert - can you prove that you understand the current Pal situation by dispassionately describing the current politics amongst the Palestinians?

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For example: describe the politics of the Palestinian Statehood request to the UN. This will convince me that you understand the region, because there were some background developments during that drama that both Abbas and Bibi would privately agree upon, but that stupid partisans from both sides of the conflict never bothered to actually follow.

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Yes, and I'm not Netanyahu fan. If I were an Israeli I"d vote Kadima. (Also, I don't think I'm a "partisan." I've argued as strongly against people advocating far-right positions on other websites [where I'm accused of being a partisan in the other direction); it's just that here the trend goes in the other direction.

Around the begining of the Obama administration, the State Department said Israel should freeze settlement construction. The problem is, they didn't clarify until later they were only talking about the occupied WB, not annexed EJ, which forced Abbas to match the demand (because how can a PA PM demand less of Israel as POTUS?) Around the end of Israel's...

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...8 month settlement freeze, Abbas and Netanyahu started negotiating in DC to start more formal talks. Right as the freeze was about to expire, Abbas changed his previous absolutists position and said he would accept talks as long as it were renewed. Perceiving this as merely a bargaining tactic Netanyahu declined. After a few more failed attempts, Abbas went to the UN where Netanyahu restated his willingness to begin negotiations unconditionally.

Personally I don't think Netanyahu is a great negotiating partner for the Palestinians; hed accept two states but demand too much. I'm skeptical Abbas even wants two states as long as he has his job. Currently, the PA gets cushy amounts of foreign aid without the full responsibilities of...

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...actually governing a full state. Netanyahu did, however, live up to his promises of "Economic Peace" and Salaam Fayyad has done the first serious work towards state-building but hasn't gotten the Palestinian recognition he deserves. Chances for an actual agreement will improve when the Israeli democratic pendulum swings left, depending on the state of Hamas/Fatah relations and other factors.

Btw, I should say it takes a lot of Chutzpah to apologize to someone for insulting their background knowledge and then try to pigeonhole them as a "partisan" and make them "prove" their knowledge with litmus tests. Hopefully I "passed" to your satisfaction.

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Well at least we can agree on one thing: we are both not fond of Abbas and Netanyahu :)

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Bilateral treaties can supplant the NPT where it doesn't work - it is possible to form a bridge to it in that way at a later stage.

But, I agree with yout article! I've got a very similar one to yours coming out soon.

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I think equating the nuclear capabilities of volatile countries such as Pakistan and Iran with those of stable democracies such as India and Israel is a little unhelpful.

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6 Replies

  • Susan Kraykowski 3 months ago That might be the understatement of...

  • Pak Israel 3 months ago Stable Democracy doesn't meant...

  • Wrolf Bronesby 3 months ago a country that maintains an aparthe...

That might be the understatement of the year, Deepak! ;D

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1 Replies

  • Georgi Ivanov 3 months ago And it's only February....

And it's only February.

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Stable Democracy doesn't meant responsible democracy.
There's more to India than it's Bollywood appearance, many regional problems human rights abuses, ethnic cleansing, and poverty, just to name a few.
Both Your India and my Israel have started plenty of wars & are no better than pak & iran

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2 Replies

  • Deepak Chandan 3 months ago Pak Israel: I would reply to your c...

  • San Man 3 months ago Your Pakistan is a worse culprit by...

Pak Israel: I would reply to your comment, but judging by your name since you are only here to troll, I'd save my time and energy.

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Your Pakistan is a worse culprit by far. Every Indo-Pak war has been started by Pakistan. Even your own generals have admitted as much, in various auto-biographical books. Pakistan's obsession over Kashmir is rooted in Pakistan's own need to distract and subjugate the Pashtuns.

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a country that maintains an apartheid concentration camp of the native inhabitants of land it commandeered can hardly be considered stable.

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As we have pulled out of Afghanistan and are now shifting our focus towards the Pacific, it seems North Korea may be getting our attention after all. My libertarian views tells me that Iran has every right as their own sovereign nation to protect themselves with nuclear strike capability. Of course, the problem is that Ahmadinejad is a questionable leader of his own people and, at least from the media portrayals, seems to be a few screws loose.

But overall, I completely agree with your premise from an ideological standpoint. Our foreign policy has been one based in meddling and self-interest. While our government's intentions may, or may not, be directed towards the nation's greater good, from the other side of the fence, it's agression.

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Dismantled is not a soft phrase either, they've threatened to close one of the world's most important waterways, and the Supreme Leader just said he'd support any group that wants to go after Israel, let's not pretend they're not bellicose either in this. As for the others, I don't know what you even mean by for pressure against Pakistan and India, two of the world's more important nations, or what should be the intended goal of said pressure. Regardless, the argument you are using is a legal double-sword. Any nation not in NPT is not bound to it, while Iran is, and if it is even building with the intent of possible future weaponization, is in violation of the NPT. That being said, when it comes to nukes, I think these treaties are moot

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