Why Mitt Romney Is More Like Ronald Reagan Than You Think

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Mitt Romney, live debate, Florida debate, Florida Primary, Ronald Reagan, Reaganomics, South Carolina, Newt Gingrich, Ron Paul, Rick Perry, Primaries, 2012, GOP, Barack Obama, Stephen Colbert, Super PAC, Tea Party

Why Mitt Romney Is More Like Ronald Reagan Than You Think

I’m a loud and proud Mitt Romney supporter. And it bothers me that I have to defend him as much as I do with fellow Republicans. The far right has been looking for the “anti-Romney” candidate all year long fearing that Romney isn’t “conservative enough” to go against Barack Obama. I’m here to tell them they’re absolutely wrong.

When I ask far right conservatives just what the heck are they looking for, the answer I get the most is “the next Ronald Reagan.” But what they don’t realize is that they’ve created this monolithic myth around Reagan that is not only inaccurate, but is impossible to live up to.

The far right wants to believe that Reagan was the most conservative president in history who never had to compromise in his life. If only. 

While Reagan certainly talked a good game of conservative principles and values, his record shows that while some taxes went down, others went up, and government spending as well as the national debt continued to grow under his administration uninterrupted. Moreover, Reagan had a Democrat-majority Congress all throughout his eight year term in the White House. He couldn’t get anything done without their approval, which led to some of the greatest pieces of bipartisan legislation this country has ever seen, including the 1982 Job Training Partnership Act, the 1983 Social Security Amendments, the 1984 Deficit Reduction Act, and the 1986 Tax Reform Act.

So how is that any different from what Romney had to deal with as governor of Massachusetts with an 85% Democrat state legislature? Romney passed what he could and vetoed anything he didn’t like, but ultimately reached across the aisle whenever he had to and solved a lot of the problems Massachusetts had, which included spending cuts, lowering taxes, and health care reform, that turned a $3 billion deficit into a $700 million budget surplus and gave the state a credit rating upgrade.

The far right also accuses Romney of being a flip-flopper on issues like abortion. Hello again Ronald Reagan, who signed the Therapeutic Abortion Act as governor of California in order to reduce the number of back alley abortions that was out of control in California at the time. Reagan then “flip-flopped,” and later became pro-life.

In fact, Reagan was also a liberal Democrat while he was working in Hollywood, supported Franklin Roosevelt’s big government policies under the New Deal, and was divorced.

Today’s far right would consider Reagan to be a “moderate sellout” with “too much baggage in his past.” They would have you believe that the difference between Romney and Obama is a difference between Coke and Pepsi. I couldn’t disagree more. Romney is a foreign policy hawk, a staunch supporter of lowering taxes, and an unapologetic free market capitalist with 25 years of private sector experience under his belt, just as Reagan was. Obama, on the other hand, is a career politician who fights for tax hikes and believes government is the solutions to all of life’s problems.

Romney provides a stark contrast to Obama much like Reagan did to Jimmy Carter in 1980. The country was suffering from a crippling recession with any hope of an economic recovery blunted by excessive taxation and regulation. One candidate blamed the American people for being soft and lazy instead of looking at his own misguided faith in big government solutions and redistribution of wealth policies while another firmly believed in free market economics and understood what makes America the great nation that it is – because of its liberty, prosperity, and strong national security. 

Déjà vu 2012, where Americans have to choose once again between continuing down the same path of big government-based solutions and economic stagnation under its current leadership or switch gears to a leader who wants to flex America’s muscles and reopen the private sector economy for business again without apologizing for either.

“Coke and Pepsi?” Yeah right.

Photo Credit: Howard O. Young

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John Giokaris

Born and raised in Chicago, John Giokaris is a graduate from Loyola University Chicago with two Bachelor's in Political Science & Journa...

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Mr. Giokaris- Terrific essay. Another thing to add to your very in depth analysis is that Reagan was in the White House 30 years ago. A lot has changed since that time- the Internet and instantaneous communication and reporting, the Middle East, a couple of wars, different kinds of economic problems, the gains of the gay community, medical technology and lots of other things. Maybe it wouldn't be so great if our GOP candidates were "too much" like Reagan. Romney has been beaten unmercifully because radical right wingers are controlling the party. They have the loudest voices and they are the most passionate, especially the evangelicals. But, they don't represent anywhere near a majority in the nation, and maybe not in the party. The problem is that that they dominate Iowa and South Carolina and will probably dominate the primaries in a few more states. I'm saddened that the Silent Majority (GOP moderates and Independents) have remained mute. I assume they will not be in the general election and will give Romney a victory assuming we can get him nominated over the objections of the ultra conservatives.

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I have always found it interesting that conservative politicians and candidates idolize Ronald Reagan in their messages, but we have failed to realize that he was a liberal from Hollywood that raised taxes. Today's Republican Party vehemently opposes ANY tax hike. Complete contradiction.

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"Is Reagan vs Romney like Coke vs Pepsi?"

Yes. They're both bad for you.

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2 Replies

  • John Giokaris 4 months ago First of all, the "Coke vs. Pe...

First of all, the "Coke vs. Pepsi" analogy was applied to the far right's comparison of Romney vs. Obama.

Second, if Reagan & Romney are Coke & Pepsi that's "bad for you," then Obama's Draino.

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  • Seamus Light 4 months ago I agree. Obama is quite lethal in ...

I agree.
Obama is quite lethal in any dosage.

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Gentlemen --

True, those who do not study history are condemned to repeat it, but repetion must be in the context of now and not 1980. Country has changed markedly economically, ethnically, socially since President Reagan's adminstration --

Neither Mitt/Newt has R's principles, guts or vision

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  • Seamus Light 4 months ago You're correct in saying that ...

You're correct in saying that this is a different country.

We've finally run out of all that money Reagan liked to spend.

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  • Joyce Cordi 4 months ago Seamus -- You are correct. We h...

Seamus --

You are correct. We have run out of money

Reagan -- the last President to try to get a grip on SS and Medicare (Lockbox) --but you are too young to remember that time --

He would have embraced Bowles-Simpson and worked with Congress to implement it --

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  • John Giokaris 4 months ago Couldn't agree more Joyce. Did...

  • Joyce Cordi 4 months ago LOL, the Dems in WH most feared as...

Couldn't agree more Joyce. Didn't you find it hilarious when Obama called for broader consensus among the parties during his SOTU speech when he's failed to take any action on golden opportunities for bipartisan cooperation like pro-growth tax reform, domestic energy development like Keystone, and increasing access to credit for small business owners & entrepreneurs? Democrats & Republicans in both the House & Senate have come out in support of these ideas but Obama hasn't touched any of em to make the envrionmentalists and supporters of tax hikes & stiffer regulations happy.

But my question to you is if you believe neither Romney or Gingrich has Republicans' "principles, guts or vision," then who does?

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LOL, the Dems in WH most feared as GOP nominee = Tim Pawlenty. Great record as X-aisle Governor, incredible back story -- guts and smart -- But not COMBATIVE -
If JEB = JES (smith) -- his record+demeanor meet Reagan guts definition
John Huntsman 88% re-elect + F.P./trade
Mitch Daniels -Record +++

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I think we make a great mistake to compare conservatism today to conservatism in Reagan's day. They ain't the same animal! Conservatism today has come into its own, can stand on its own, and needs to break principles less to carry the ball forward. Ronald Reagan WAS the most consecrative president of all time when comparing where conservatism was at the time. As to Romney, he is no Reagan. In fact, he's barely a Republican. His entire record shows he's a center left guy. What he is saying on the campaign trail now is easily dismissible when looking at this liberal record. His record is pro-abortion, anti-2nd Amendment, big government. I ignore what he claims he'll do. I look at what he DID do.

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  • Warner Todd Huston 4 months ago And now to address this absurd &quo...

And now to address this absurd "well Reagan supported abortion" business. It is a non sequitur to point to Reagan's early support of abortion (especially to compare to Romney's!) as if it immunizes others. First of all, abortion was NOT a national, well-debated issue when Reagan signed that legislation -- R V Wade hadn't even come about yet. Secondly he himself admitted that he'd never thought about the issue until after he signed that bill and faced the opposition to it. Upon reflection he realized abortion was wrong. But he had not claimed for himself a solid idea on abortion until later. This is quite different than Romney who campaigned on pro-abortion ideas then suddenly had an epiphany when he wanted to seem more conservative.

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  • John Giokaris 4 months ago Well Warner you'll obviously b...

Well Warner you'll obviously believe whatever you want to believe. I could say the same thing about what Reagan did vs. what Romney did: Liberal Democrat in Hollywood, FDR New Deal supporter, Therapeutic Abortion Act, divorced and who's children were against his positions vs. a lifelong Republican, successful & unapologetic free market capitalist with a proven track record of spending cuts & tax cuts that led to fiscal prosperity for MA, and married for over 40 years to the same woman with all his children supporting him unquestionably.

But that's not what I want to focus on. My focus is on how Reagan rallied a majority, knew when to call and when to fold but ultimately reached across the aisle whenever he had to to get things done.

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  • John Giokaris 4 months ago That was Reagan's real success...

  • Warner Todd Huston 4 months ago Actually you can't say the sam...

  • John Giokaris 4 months ago OK but a couple things. "Remem...

That was Reagan's real success. That's what led to the greatest bipartisan solutions this country ever came up with. Regardless of what some of what the far right wants to believe, Reagan understood that elections are won by addition, not subtraction. He practiced the politics of inclusion, not exclusion. He took his message of freedom, individual choice & less gov't to anyone & any group who would listen. He never tried to exclude anyone from his coalition. That's what I believe Romney can accomplish today. America's a center right nation & Romney's a center right leader. But if all extremists care about is sending people to DC who want to divide instead of unify, an Obama vs. Gingrich election will just lead to more of the same: gridlock.

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Actually you can't say the same thing about Romney (unless you just want to believe what you want to believe). Reagan's life record shows a steady move to the right. Romney's does NOT. Romney's record shows a steady center leaning-left record with NO migration toward conservatism... except all his sudden rhetoric while running for office. Remember, in 2007 he was running as the more moderate candidate compared to McCain. Suddenly this time he's trying to claim he's an arch conservative. He is thoroughly unbelievable. Is he better and more conservative than Obama? Sure he is. Will I vote for him if he's the GOP nominee? Yes... while holding my nose and hoping conservatives can keep Romney to his sudden conservative rhetoric.

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OK but a couple things. "Remember in 2007 he was running as the more moderate candidate compared to McCain." Are you serious??? Romney was considered the conservative guy in 2007-2008! I guarantee you anyone else will say that. Jesse Merkel's comment below: "I should print this article out & show it to those people who are as I call em the 'late to the party purists' - who loved Romney 4 years ago but despise him now."

And "Romney's record shows a steady center leaning-left record with NO migration toward conservatism," did you even read my article or check out the references? Romney cut spending & lowered taxes which turned a $3 billion deficit into a $700 million budget surplus & gave MA a credit rating upgrade. That makes him liberal???

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He is a moderate, not a flat out liberal. He is not a conservative. He was always pro-abortion (until he wasn't), he was always big government (until he wasn't), he was always anti-Second Amendment (until he wasn't), he is pro-government take over of healthcare (until he wasn't), he has supported every liberal judge to come down the pike (until he says he wouldn't). Need I go on? His entire record is static as a moderate. His sudden claims of being a conservative are not credible at all. Finally, I did not love Romney any more 4 years ago than I do now. I have precisely the same low opinion of him now as then. And his brittleness and inability to defend himself from attack in the debates makes matters worse. Horrible candidate. Horrible.

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Well I obviously disagree with you. Health Connector was meant for MA, not the whole country. It's unconstitutional federally, but not in MA. And the overwhelming majority of MA are happy with it. I know what I'm looking for & where to find it, I'm not sure if you do. But I'll tell you this, as much as the far right may love Newt's tough-talking rhetoric, he can't rally a majority of this country come November. Of course I'll vote for him while holding my nose & just hope the GOP can obtain majority in the Senate too, but if given a choice between Obama vs. Gingrich, the middle of America will give Obama 4 more years. FOX's Brit Hume sums it up best: http://video.foxnews.com/v/1410052614001/brit-humes-commentary-political-momentum-by-state/

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Romneycare. That is another Romney lie. He DID say he thought it was a model for the whole country. Then he changed his mind - like he has with practically everything - but only when he was running for the White House. I disagree that Newt can't win. I DO think Romney can't. He is weak, he can't defend his record, and people won't know why they should vote for a guy that once supported everything he now rails against. Plus I don't see him being able to forcefully debate Obama. From what I've seen he comes off as an elitist that will fold like a cheap suit the second he's confronted on anything.

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You're dead wrong. Romney's a superb debator & the only of which I'm confident can & will tear Obama in half head-to-head. Of all the candidates, Romney's the one with the least amount of gaffes & foul ups. Show me where & when Romney said: "Romneycare is a model for the nation"? And what does it matter, he's repeated a million freakin times that he'll repeal Obamacare on Day 1. I find it amazing that conservatives back then were willing to give Reagan, a former liberal Democrat & New Deal supporter, the benefit of the doubt on shrinking gov't, which didn't happen, but today's far right zealots won't do the same for Romney. And all the polls show your assessment about who can win & who can't is wrong, even though I know you could care less.

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Not to mention Newt Gingrich has a history of supporting federal mandates as well, before he "decided he didn't":

http://www.politifact.com/truth-o-meter/statements/2012/jan/24/rick-santorum/rick-santorum-calls-newt-gingrich-longtime-support/

So it's OK if Newt says it but not Romney cuz Romney isn't fanatical enough for you?

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And WHEN did Newt actually vote for one and impose one on a polity? If you are going to ding Newt for just TALKING about one but ignore Romney for IMPOSING one... well, what can be said of that? Like I said, I don't go by what people say alone. I find their actions far more important than the balloons they float.

By the way, I am not a Newt voter. I am just four square against Romney.

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Romney has been brittle every single time he's been directly confronted. He will wilt like a flower before Obama.

As to the other...

“I’m proud of what we’ve done. If Massachusetts succeeds in implementing it, then that will be a model for the nation.”-- Mitt Romney, Feb. 2007

http://www.thedailybeast.com/newsweek/2010/04/18/mitt-romney-on-romneycare.html

As to Reagan not shrinking govt, are you forgetting he faced a Dem congress that refused to implement his cuts??

And YOU are a perfect example of the sort of elitist that regular rank and filers hate. So far in EVERY reply you've called me names, attacked my motivations and slammed my intelligence while I never once made this personal. Nice way to win over people.

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Romney "imposed" it? Wrong. It was passed with overwhelming bipartisan majority in the state legislature & the majority of the state is happy with it, unlike the way Obamacare was passed & recieved.

And are you forgetting Romney faced an 85% Dem legislature that didn't give him everything he wanted either? That wasn't my point, my point was you keep harping on Romney's record vs. rhetoric when the same case could be made for Reagan.

I didn't call you anything. I'm just defending my candidate & questioned your accusations. You're the one who's been smug & calling anyone who isn't far right every name in the book in your posts. That's what turns off the centrists & independents of America and why the GOP lose in blue & purple states.

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LOL. So now you are trying to say that Romneycare was pushed by a Dem. legislature over Romney's conservative objections?? The record shows Romney FULLY supported the law. Even today he stands 100% behind it. Sorry, but you cannot have it both ways. On the other hand, Reagan did have qualms and objections that the Democrats forced on him. There is no comparison at all between Romney and Reagan. Not a one.

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Yeah there is, you just don't want to see it.

I'm saying Romneycare was a BIPARTISAN piece of legislation that had BIPARTISAN support in MA, just as the 1982 Job Training Partnership Act, the 1983 Social Security Amendments, the 1984 Deficit Reduction Act, and the 1986 Tax Reform Act were BIPARTISAN pieces of legislation that had BIPARTISAN support. None of these things would've been passed if any one of these parties didn't support it. Get it?

Alright Warner I've gone in enough circles with you for one day. It's exhausting. Go watch Obama's State of the Union tonight and write up something about everything that's wrong with it, I think that's something we can both agree on!

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Not sure there is anything "we can both agree on." LOL. Have a good day.

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How about seeing Obama become a 1 term president?

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So, I addressed this whole Reagan was an abortion supporter claim today...

"Dear Romneyites, Reagan Was NOT an Abortion Supporter!"

http://www.publiusforum.com/2012/02/01/dear-romneyites-reagan-was-not-an-abortion-supporter/

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Well I'm flattered to serve as inspiration for a whole column Warner.

Here's my question. Throughout this entire thread, many of your points alluded to rhetoric vs. action. Reagan did sign the Therapeutic Abortion Act when he was governor. What pro-abortion piece of legislation did Romney ever sign as governor?

Reagan later regretted the decision and vowed he would never do it again. Romney has reached the same conclusion. So what's the difference aside from the record on action?

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I certainly understand your implication, but in light of what I wrote, I just don't find the fact to be a meaningful distinction. After all, I did not say either Romney or Reagan were crusaders for or against abortion (or both at one time and another). What it comes down to is evidence of an actual shift in ideas. Reagan shows a meaningful record of his "growth" on the issue. Even though he and his supporters invoke Reagan's example, Romney doesn't show a credible progression. We have Romney's entire adult life save the last few years as an ardent abortion supporter while in office, and his sudden proclamation that he's "grown" while running for a new office where the issue is pivotal for voters. The same just cannot be said of Reagan.

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Well that judgment is in the eye of the beholder. Can we at least agree on that Warner? You don't want to believe Romney but I'm willing to give him the benefit of the doubt. There. It's not like the alternative (Obama) is exactly pro-life either.

Personally, I think the whole abortion issue is a distraction anyway. If it's ever going to get overturned (and I won't open a whole nother can of worms here debating that), it's going to happen at the judicial branch. No executive is ever going to be able to do it. How many Republican candidates bark all day long about overturning Roe v. Wade on the campaign trail to attract religious votes every election year but has anything changed since 1973?

The economy & jobs will be the #1 issue of 2012.

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I'd love to believe Romney. But he's given me no concrete reason to do so. But, yes, you are right, even if Romney is a tacit (or secret) abortion supporter, he would never be as much of a pro-infanticide activist as Obama.

I also agree that it is some what of a distraction, but not where it concerns judicial nominees.

The economy & jobs should be number one issues.

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Cheers to that.

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I am not sure I understand your argument. I enjoyed reading it but I am a little confused.

Are you trying to convince the far right they should vote for Romney or that they shouldnt? Sounds like you want them to vote for him...

But if they want a consistent conservative, how will you by convince them to vote for Romney by showing them that Reagan was not a consistent conservative convince, despite their similarity?

I assume your argument will only work if the far right only wants another Reagan, regardless of how consistent he is as a conservative.

It seems to me that you show quite well that their view of Reagan is fictional. But is that enough to get them behind Romney?

Anyway, good article.

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16 Replies

  • John Giokaris 4 months ago Thanks Omar. I was pointing out ...

Thanks Omar.

I was pointing out was how unfair I think it is for the far right to accuse Romney of not being "conservative enough" if they're using Reagan as the measuring stick. I think Romney is just as conservative if not more.

But as Gary identified below, "Honestly, I think when people say they wish another Ronald Reagan would walk through the door they are really wishing for a person who could deliver the conservative message as effectively. Reagan was the best. You're right that he didn't always govern in accordance with the rhetoric. Unfortunately, Romney falls well short in this regard. That doesn't mean he won't be an effective president, it just means he doesn't garner the kind of enthusiasm one would like to see in a leader."

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  • John Giokaris 4 months ago Personally, I'm tired of seein...

  • Ben Poole 4 months ago Oh John, Quit being so sensitive...

Personally, I'm tired of seeing both the far left & far right sending extremists to Washington who only know how to divide people instead of unite them. That's not solving any of our problems, it's only leading to gridlock. I believe Romney can unify a majority to solve problems the way Reagan did in the 1980s. America is a center right nation and Romney is a center right leader. He's the missing piece.

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  • Omar Shaukat 4 months ago Thanks for the clarification!...

  • Raoul Kleven 4 months ago I'm curious about who in Washi...

  • Omar Shaukat 4 months ago By the way John, what do you think ...

Thanks for the clarification!

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I'm curious about who in Washington would be described as far left? Or far right, for that matter.

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By the way John, what do you think about Paul? On the left-right spectrum where do you place him? (I think this left-right language distorts more than it explains, but would like to hear your take).

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Left to Right

Obama Paul Romney Newt Santorum

Many will disagree. But, that's the way I see it. Though Obama is as a hawk flies as are all except Paul.

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Raoul,

I would basically classify anybody who refuses to find common ground with the other side and build on top of it and just pushes for all their way 24/7 as extremist. For example, pro-growth tax reform & energy projects like the Keystone pipeline have the most bipartisan support in Congress today: http://www.policymic.com/articles/3441/obama-s-keystone-xl-pipeline-decision-a-big-mistake But Obama has refused to act on either, pushing for tax hikes instead to appease the far left & axing the pipeline to appease the environmentalists. This is not what the majority of the public wants: http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/politics/current_events/environment_energy/56_favor_building_keystone_pipeline_think_it_s_good_for_economy

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http://www.rasmussenreports.com/public_content/business/general_business/december_2011/most_voters_still_feel_tax_cuts_spending_cuts_help_the_economy

Now as far as who I who else I would classify as far left or far right, I think politicians like Nancy Pelosi, Barney Frank, Bernie Sanders, Jan Schakowsky, and Barbara Boxer are as far left as they get, while politicians like Eric Cantor, Jim DeMint, Michele Bachmann, and John Cornyn couldn't be more far right.

You disagree Raoul?

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Omar,

As far as Ron Paul goes, I think he's an extremist as well - a libertarian extremist. I consider myself a conservative libertarian, or center right Republican. I'm for smaller gov't in both people's professional as well as personal lives. Most liberal Democrats don't support the former while most social conservatives don't support the latter.

I actually agree w/ 80% of Ron Paul's domestic policy. However, I don't think we should get rid of things like the Federal Reserve or our intelligence agencies. The Fed is a critical tool for controlling US monetary policy, and yes while it can be used & abused like any other tool, that doesn't mean we should get rid of it altogether. The Fed is why we're not in a currency crisis like the EU's.

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And getting rid of our intelligence agencies would be grossly reckless & irresponsible and would leave us completely vulnerable for another 9-11 type terrorist attack.

Which segways into Paul's foreign policy stances, most of which I don't agree with at all. Do I support wrapping up Iraq & Afghanistan? Without a doubt. But that doesn't mean we should become an isolationist nation as well & shut off any contact with the rest of the world outside these borders. I know Paul claims the US should "mind it's own business," but if he thinks countries like Russia, China, or Iran "minds their own business," he's out of his mind. We're not the only country in the world w/ a foreign policy & if we got rid of our intel services, that doesn't mean the

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rest of the world will. There's nothing wrong w/ idealism, but it also needs a healthy dose of reality & pragmatism, or you'll never get anything done w/ it, unless you're just looking to collect speech fees.

Before anybody gets confused, let me address what I believe the proper role of gov't is. The role of gov't, as defined by the Constitution, is to protect its citizens from all internal & external threats (life), to protect our Constitutional rights & freedoms (liberty) & to provide an equal opportunity environment for all individuals to economically prosper (pursuit of happiness). Gov't guarantees equal opportunity, not equal results, for citizens to succeed. Results are up to the individual.

Anything beyond that is unconstitutional.

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Well, it seems to me that the furthest left of those people would be Bernie Sanders, and even he's just a garden variety social democrat who wants to cement social welfare and regulatory programs. That's not really far-left. I suppose people like DeMint or Bachmann are more to the right than Sanders is to the left, but even so there's so few people in Washington who question the 'Washington consensus' - Paul, Sanders, Kucinich, maybe a few others.

There's no far-leftists in Washington, certainly, no one who advocates not just changing capitalism but getting rid of it.

I just question the extreme label. If you're saying that these people don't work well together, then that's something else entirely.

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Oh John,

Quit being so sensitive. Paul gets that all the time how's he not this or that. Romney needs to quit being a politician and look like a leader. Newt took the macho man's vote.

Reagan was an interventionist. Remember Olly North and the Contras?

Reagan has a lot if you look close.
http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/americas/3788229.stm

Believe a myth or live your life. Same with Romney, Newt, and Paul. Romney is more get the job done. But, has flaws of being to efficient to the sake of harming. He was hamstrung by his efficiency in Bain. It's not just what you do, its what you know your doing. In this, Romney is the cold exacting corporate raider maximizing profit which is his signature trademark.

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3 Replies

  • John Giokaris 4 months ago I'm not sure what you mean, Be...

  • John Giokaris 4 months ago Even Ron Paul disagrees with Romney...

  • Ben Poole 4 months ago John, I'm not complaining. ...

I'm not sure what you mean, Ben.

First of all, as I stated in my piece on Romney's Bain record (http://www.policymic.com/articles/3332/setting-the-record-straight-on-the-bain-of-mitt-romney-s-2012-campaign) this image perpetrated by the left & Romney's primary opponents of a Gordon Gekko-type corporate raider that liquidated companies for all they were worth & screwed “the little people” over is purely absurd. Romney & Bain were anything but. They were a thoroughly respectable investment management firm that successfully discharged its responsibility of earning high returns for its investors by deploying capital in companies privately rather than by buying shares in the public market.

And I never considered efficiency to be a "bad thing."

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Even Ron Paul disagrees with Romney's "vulture capitalist" accusations:

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uwKu8ST0Ino

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John,

I'm not complaining. Make as much as you can. But, what Ron stated was 1) explained that Romney was just talking about how the market works 2) Restructuring was necessary. But, its not what you do (those are all good), its how you do it (www.kingofbain.com). To gut the companies and take the money out of the US is not wrong per se, its just that it was codified under Carter to let corporations move the money to offshore investments and keep profits from those investments untaxed until repatriated. That is the culprit not Romney. He just took advantage of it (see tax return). So, his raider status is true but its profit & legal. Its just that the left (or internally GOP) will use it to show the US layoffs. That leaves a bad taste.

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Great great great great article my friend! I should print this article out, and show it to those people who are as I call them the 'late to the party purists' - who loved Romney four years ago but despise him now.

Also - Gingrich spent nearly 30 years in washington, Paul spent over 25 and Santorum nearly 20. Romney - none.
And he's the insider?

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1 Replies

  • John Giokaris 4 months ago Exactly Jesse, I knew you'd ge...

Exactly Jesse, I knew you'd get it.

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This runs shivers down my spine, First of all Ronald Reagen was a movie star that already had fame and fortune and could run for President with out making ties to Special Interest groups of the Central Bank, doing this He made peace with Russia instead of starting WW3.

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I knew Mr. Reagan, and you sir are no Ronald Reagan.....

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  • John Giokaris 4 months ago What are you doing here Lawrence? G...

What are you doing here Lawrence? Go back to protesting the Keystone pipeline. I don't think you're in any position to judge who a true conservative is.

And you're certainly no Lloyd Bentsen.

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  • Lawrence Sampson 4 months ago LOL sorry I just couldn't resi...

LOL sorry I just couldn't resist the humor in this.....

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Honestly, I think when people say they wish another Ronald Reagan would walk through the door they are really wishing for a person who could deliver the conservative message as effectively. Reagan was the best. You're right that he didn't always govern in accordance with the rhetoric. Unfortunately, Romney falls well short in this regard. That doesn't mean he won't be an effective president, it just means he doesn't garner the kind of enthusiasm one would like to see in a leader.

You would have to also acknowledge that his health care reform was anything but conservative. His response that it's a state plan vs. a federal plan is lacking.

Btw, in my opinion Gingrich is less conservative than Romney.

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7 Replies

  • Paul Anderson 4 months ago I'm curious why you think Ging...

  • John Giokaris 4 months ago I think you hit the nail on the hea...

I'm curious why you think Gingrich is less conservative than Romney? It's a tough question to tackle, because it requires us to figure out what Romney actually believes. But I'll do my best here:

Immigration:
Rom: unclear - supported Kennedy-McCain and demonized people who opposed it. Now opposes Dream Act.
Newt: Opposes comprehensive immigration reform but supports Dream Act.
Takeaway: Romney currently a sliver to the right...

Cap and trade:
Rom: Supported previously, now opposes.
Newt: Ditto...
Takeaway: Romney would probably still sign a bill from a dem congress.

Healthcare:
Rom: Signed center-right healthcare law in Mass.
Newt: Supported small parts of that law, but also helped defeat Hillarycare.
Takeaway: Newt more conserv...

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  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 4 months ago For one, Newt supported the mandate...

  • Jesse Merkel 4 months ago I remember four years ago during th...

For one, Newt supported the mandate on the federal level for a decade. This guy, who claims to be a great historian, had no problem w/ it's constitutionality until it became a political liability.

He derides Mitt Romney for his work in the private sector, making claims I would expect from Hugo Chavez. Now Newt's going around boasting about how much he paid in taxes. Kudos to you Newt!

He also has a man-crush on FDR, claiming he was the greatest president of the 20th century. That's like nails down a chalk board for myself and any self-respecting conservative.

http://hotair.com/archives/2011/12/13/gingrich-on-numerous-past-occasions-fdr-was-the-greatest-president-of-the-20th-century/

In sum, Newt is a disgrace.

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  • John Giokaris 4 months ago And totally agree on Romney vs. Gin...

  • Ben Poole 4 months ago John, You get Ron Paul who'...

  • John Giokaris 4 months ago No disagreements from me on that Be...

And totally agree on Romney vs. Gingrich, Gary! 100%.

To add on, as Taylor pointed out below: "The republicans paint themselves as the 'Family Values' party. Reagan had a divorce and his children were at odds with his positions. Romney has been married over 40 years to the same woman, and his children all support him unquestionably. Gingrich? 3 wifes, 2 religions." Of those 3, who really comes closest on family values?

How's that for social conservative hypocracy? I guess it all depends on what "family values" means to you. If it's being a good husband & father, you got Romney. If it means hating gays & forcing women to have unwanted pregnancies, you got Gingrich and the rest of the far right.

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John,

You get Ron Paul who's not divorced or ever has been. Nor does he force his beliefs on anyone but has strong moral conviction. He understands the separation of church and state. That is character.

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No disagreements from me on that Ben, not to mention he was the only 2012 candidate who didn't attack Romney for being a successful free market capitalist!

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I remember four years ago during the debates, Romney ripped the McCain-Kennedy proposals.

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I think you hit the nail on the head as always Gary. That's pretty much the bottom line, the far right is looking for confrontational, tough-talking, in your face rhetoric, probably cuz they act more on emotion & impulse than anything else. But that's all extremists; the far left too.

Re: healthcare, well, that's what comes from being in a blue state like MA. I've shot down every argument and criticisms that conservatives have made about it, but the bottom line is they just don't like it no matter what. There's nothing he can do to change that, even if he vows to repeal Obamacare on Day 1 nonstop.

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Good points/article on Reagan and Romney. On the narrow question of governing style, Reagan and Romney are similar. Reagan governed as a pragmatist.

You lose me on the election analogy, though. Even if you believe that Obama is the worst prez ever, there just aren't many parallels with Carter. Obama isn't facing a challenge on the Left. And that it's going to be pretty difficult for Romney to run to his Right (and get traction like Reagan).

Obama v. Romney feels more like 04: A polarized electorate and a slowly improving economy. '04 liberals (like '12 conservatives) were CERTAIN that a majority of the country hated Bush (wrong!). They also nominated a stiff patrician Mass. flip flopper who lacked the ability to connect with voters. Hmm.

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  • Paul Anderson 4 months ago I mean "run to his right on fo...

  • John Giokaris 4 months ago Touche Paul. A lot of my liberal...

I mean "run to his right on foreign policy (and get traction like Reagan)". Because no matter how bad you think Obama's foreign policy is, your beliefs are nullified by the large majority that approves of it.

Other differences with Carter:
Economy improving
Obama is a much more effective campaigner
Obama has 5 times as many accomplishments as Carter (whether you like them or not, this is true). He has "things" that he can run on. Again - whether you like these things or not, he has a long record of passing sweeping legislation. Carter didn't have much.
At this point in 1980, Carter's approval rating was hovering around 30%.

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Touche Paul.

A lot of my liberal friends have been drawing parallels to 2004 as well. Remember Bush only won the election by 1 state: Ohio. It wasn't a blowout. And Romney is leading Obama in 5 of 6 key swing states: http://www.politico.com/blogs/burns-haberman/2012/01/gop-poll-romney-leads-obama-in-of-swing-states-111368.html

While the GOP looks fractured w/ 3 different candidates today, that's also what they said about Obama vs. Hillary in 2008. Watch how fast the opposition coalesces once the candidate is determined.

But the major difference between 2004 vs. 2012 is unemployment. It hit a 40 year low under Bush & even that was only enough to squeak him thru. No prez has won re-election w/ unemployment this high since FDR in the 1930s.

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Maybe it's time the Republican party stopped defining itself with one President who left office almost a quarter century ago. Maybe Reagan would lose some of his luster if his ideological supporters were cognizant that deficit spending started during his tenure, that the Soviet Union was decaying regardless of any American tough talk, that we have a bellicose Iran today due in large parts to actions yesterday. Personally, I don't think we need another Reagan.

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Your point directly contradicts itself. You argue that Romney was, like Reagan, a secretly moderate, statist "conservative" under whom government grew. In the same breath you state that he's a "staunch free-market capitalist" against big government. One of these things is not like the other.

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7 Replies

  • John Giokaris 4 months ago I beg to differ. Reagan was definit...

I beg to differ. Reagan was definitely a free market capitalist & enacted pro-growth tax reform as well as entitlement reform but gov't spending continued to expand due to defense spending & the arms race against the Soviets. As for domestic policy, Reagan knew when to call & when to fold but ultimately reached across the aisle whenever he had to to get things done, like Romney did as governor. They both had to deal with Democrat-majority Congresses, so they didn't get everything they wanted.

But I feel that both the far left & far right want to send extremists to Washington who only know how to divide people instead of unite them. That's not solving any of our problems, it's only leading to gridlock. I believe Romney can unify a majority.

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  • John Giokaris 4 months ago America is a center right nation an...

  • Andrea Sepenzis 4 months ago Did you actually differ somewhere? ...

America is a center right nation and Romney is a center right leader.

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  • Paul Anderson 4 months ago America is a center-right nation. W...

  • John Giokaris 4 months ago Democrats are a centrist party? Not...

America is a center-right nation. We have a centrist party and a right-wing party, and Americans fall squarely in the middle.

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Democrats are a centrist party? Not the ones running it! Democrats & Republicans in both the House & Senate have come out in support of pro-growth tax reform, domestic energy development projects like Keystone, and increasing access to credit for small business owners & entrepreneurs: http://www.policymic.com/articles/3441/obama-s-keystone-xl-pipeline-decision-a-big-mistake

But Obama, Reid & Pelosi haven't touched any of it to appease the far left environmentalists & supporters of tax hikes. That's not centrist to me!

Not to mention the Dems weren't acting very centrist in 2009-2010 when they were trying to push thru the Stimulus, Frank-Dodd, Obamacare, Cap & Trade, the DREAM Act, and demonized Paul Ryan for trying to reform entitlements.

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Did you actually differ somewhere? I didn't speak to Romney's ability to unify; I agree, he'll appeal to a wide swath of moderates. But not free market types. Entitlement spending tripled under Reagan. His track record makes clear there's no reason to be optimistic about Romney's ideological purity

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  • John Giokaris 4 months ago Romney is being attacked for his re...

  • Andrea Sepenzis 4 months ago You appear (like many conservatives...

Romney is being attacked for his record in venture capitalism & private equity investment while he was at Bain and you're saying he won't appeal to free market types? He finds himself having to defend free market capitalism, even from his right!

http://www.policymic.com/articles/3332/setting-the-record-straight-on-the-bain-of-mitt-romney-s-2012-campaign

Reagan cut the budgets of Medicaid, welfare & federal education programs, as well as enacting long overdue reform to SS which is the only reason why it's even sustained this long. Again, he was only 1/3rd of gov't. He did have to contend with a Tip O'Neill-led Democrat Congress. No matter who wins the White House, his ability to get what he wants depends on his pary's strength in Congress.

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You appear (like many conservatives) to be confusing "business" for "free-market capitalism." I don't care if my politicians are doctors, lawyers or businessmen. I do, however, know that a lawmaker who designed Massachusetts' current health care system cannot be described as "free market."

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On the points in your article and logic of presentation of debate, deserves +1pt. But, there are some things that are not mentioned that are also correct.

Foreign Policy Hawk - Obama can't be argued as being Carter who shrank and allowed the US to endure years of humiliation. Instead Obama starts his own personal war in Libya (against the Constitution and War Powers Act). Continued GWB war policy. Iran: Carriers, warships, saber rattling. Obama is a hawk contrary to the rose colored glasses of his left's supporters. Romney is supportive of Obama's positions in a Coke v Pepsi way - both lead to war with Iran.

Liberty: Romney stated he would sign NDAA as is. Obama did

Special Interests: Romney & Obama - just flavors of Wall Street interest

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  • Trenton Hansen 4 months ago Allen West also voted for NDAA, and...

Allen West also voted for NDAA, and defended his decision on air. Does that mean he's against liberty, too?

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  • Ben Poole 4 months ago Yes. Anyone who defends the entiret...

Yes. Anyone who defends the entirety of NDAA does so against our liberty. Ron Paul has introduced legislation to remove provisions of the act that are against American's being held without due process by the military and other violations of civil liberties.

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The republicans paint themselves as the "Family Values" party.

Reagan had a divorce and his children were at odds with his positions.

Romney has been married over 40 years to the same woman, and his children all support him unquestionably.

Gingrich? 3 wifes, 2 religions. Family values? ha.

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Mr. Giokaris- Terrific essay. Another thing to add to your very in depth analysis is that Reagan was in the White House 30 years ago. A lot has changed since that time- the Internet and instantaneous communication and reporting, the Middle East, a couple of wars, different kinds of economic problems, the gains of the gay community, medical technology and lots of other things. Maybe it wouldn't be so great if our GOP candidates were "too much" like Reagan.

Romney has been beaten unmercifully because radical right wingers are controlling the party. They have the loudest voices and they are the most passionate, especially the evangelicals. But, they don't represent anywhere near a majority in the nation, and maybe not in the party. The problem is that that they dominate Iowa and South Carolina and will probably dominate the primaries in a few more states. I'm saddened that the Silent Majority (GOP moderates and Independents) have remained mute. I assume they will not be in the general election and will give Romney a victory assuming we can get him nominated over the objections of the ultra conservatives.

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  • John Giokaris 4 months ago Beautifully put Sal. Couldn't ...

  • Michael Weiss 4 months ago Silent Majority are praying to St. ...

Beautifully put Sal. Couldn't have said it better.

It disappoints me as well that the silent majority (center right GOP & independents) have remained so mute on this. But I haven't ;-)

You want to talk about social conservative hypocracy though, as Tyler points out above: "Reagan had a divorce & his children were at odds with his positions. Romney has been married over 40 years to the same woman & his children all support him unquestionably. Gingrich? 3 wifes, 2 religions." Of those 3, who really comes closest on family values?

I guess it all depends on what "family values" means to you. If it's being a good husband & father, you got Romney. If it means hating gays & forcing women to have unwanted pregnancies, you got the far right GOP.

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Silent Majority are praying to St. Jude!

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  • John Giokaris 4 months ago ...OK...

...OK

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Romney is selling himself short. He has a lot of accomplishments, both in the private and public sectors, as a competent and efficient executive. I really hope he's tackling his campaign's challenges as the seasoned problem-solving businessman he is. If so, he'll come out a stronger candidate on the other end. Great analysis BTW!

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