A Muslim-American Perspective On the GOP And Ron Paul @PolicyMic | Omar Shaukat

A Muslim-American Perspective On the GOP And Ron Paul

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PolicyMic

Like most Americans, I began thinking about presidential candidates by determining their views on the issues that I cared about the most. Due to my immigrant Muslim-American identity, I was chiefly concerned with social values and foreign policy. But I found it increasingly difficult to choose between the Republicans and the Democrats. 

Insofar as the Republicans championed conservative social values, I was attracted to their leadership, and, insofar as the Democrats challenged a hawkish foreign policy, I gravitated towards them. However, when I thought primarily as an American, rather than a Muslim or a humanitarian, I turned Republican because the party represented the moral hope for America, the country where I would like to raise a family. But then I witnessed the rise of Islamophobia through the Republican ranks just prior to the 2008 elections. Colin Powell’s denunciation of this sentiment convinced me that as a Muslim-American I should favor the Democrats. My desires for a traditionally religious America were outweighed by the threats and insults I feared as a Muslim-American.

Unfortunately, the Islamophobia continues to grow. Not only has the political culture turned more Islamophobic, it is now expected that the candidates opine on “Sharia.” The problem is not that they are not equipped to discuss Sharia, rather that their analyses seem intentionally simplistic and hateful. The two Republican candidates who best capture this tendency are Newt Gingrich and Rick Santorum. along with being foreign policy hawks, they also cast undue suspicion on Muslim-Americans, presumably thinking that it will get them more votes. Whether their assumption is true or not, I feel so alienated from their platforms that, despite some congruence over issues of public morality, any reconciliation will not be likely in the immediate future.

In this environment some prominent Muslim-Americans have considered supporting a different brand of American conservatism, what Hamza Yusuf has called the “progressive Right.” And given the trajectory of my political sympathies, I think I can appreciate their thinking. Let me try to explain.

First, divide American conservatism into these ideal-types; paleo-conservatives, with their emphasis on limited government; neo-conservatives, with their emphasis on an aggressive foreign policy; and social-conservatives, with their emphasis on traditional values. 

Neo-conservatism is unattractive to me for the obvious reasons. Social-conservatism is distasteful insofar as it is colored by Islamophobia. Santorum, the leading representative of social-conservatives, is probably the most Islamophobic of all the candidates. Not only is he woefully ignorant, but also very bellicose. Though he is not alone in being a “buffoon” or a “fear monger,” he is possibly doing the most to alienate Muslim-Americans from the socially conservative section of the GOP. 

Thus, what I am left with are the paleo-conservatives, and their candidate Rep. Ron Paul (R-Texas).

I assume most Muslim-Americans will support Paul because of his foreign policy views on Iran, Afghanistan and war. But more crucially, I am attracted to his paleo-conservative tendencies, even if his radical libertarianism might give me some pause. Not guilty of Islamophobia, a non-interventionist, defending civil liberties, consistently pro-life, not willing to subsidize abortion, and uninterested in regulating sexual behavior without abandoning a traditional view of marriage, I think Paul’s nuanced message on the relation between law and morality should resonate with many Muslim-Americans.

In sum, most versions of conservatism, because they are not hostile to religiosity, are, in my opinion, compatible with the ethical worldview of many religious Muslim-Americans. The only obstacles that personally keep me from becoming an enthusiastic Republican are the party’s idolatrous and jingoistic tendency to turn interventionist and Islamophobic. Whether Paul gets nominated or not, I hope the Republicans are able to return to their original paleo-conservative roots.

Photo Credit: Gage Skidmore

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Omar Shaukat

I was born and raised in Karachi. Moved to the US for college in 1999. And currently a PhD candidate in Religious Studies at the University of Vi...

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Reem Nasr

I appreciate how you show us your thought process and the many complexities of creating a political identity in this country. Great article.

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I'm surprised Muslim-Americans are opposed to interventionalism in the Mid-East. No Muslim-American I've ever met ever favored Saddam or Qaddafi. In fact, many came to America to escape those regimes. Iran is far more threatening to the Muslim countries around it than it is to the US. Why then would Muslim-American immigrants with probable roots in one of those directly threatened countries, oppose curbing Iranian power? This had never made sense to me, especially since many Muslim countries, particularly Saudi Arabia have asked us directly for help in keeping stability in the region. The Gulf War, for instance was fought in direct partnership with Saudi Arabia. Libya intervention had the support of the Arab league.

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2 Replies

  • Omar Shaukat 1 month ago Many factors. A few: 1. While one...

Many factors. A few:
1. While one might hate X because of how oppressive X is, that does not entail that the oppressed are also in favor of a war to get rid of X.
2. The average guy on the street is bitterly opposed to his government. So when Govt A asks the US to intervene in the business of Govt B, does not mean that the subject of Govt A will also hold the same opinion as Govt A.
3. Somebody might hate his government for oppressing him, but does not hate his government enough to support the attempts of external governments to intervene in that persons country.
4. There is a long history of US support of dictators, so US actions are viewed with suspicion
Try this http://www.brookings.edu/press/Books/2011/feelingbetrayed.aspx

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1 Replies

  • Ben Poole 1 month ago Feelings of betrayal by both Muslim...

Feelings of betrayal by both Muslim and average American is closer than most acknowledge. Most focus on their pet promise from a politician. I focus on fairness and faith in governance (never trust any man). Yet, the US has failed in its trust in decades past. We empowered bin Laden not the Islamic community. Our trust betrayed ended in bitter backlash and war on the US as the "great Satan" (verdicts out on that one). Yet, the real "satan" is the enemy of all people. The betrayal of trust of POTUS (take your pick since the 50's) to both Islamic countries & to the people of the US.

Many who are blind want to kill all Muslims. That is stupid and ignorance the same as the Taliban who wishes to burn schools or ban US music. Its but fear.

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Omar,
I find it curious that you denounce Rick Santorum. One of the reasons he is an Islamaphobe is he does not believe that Muslim tradition/values are congruent with those of Christianity. Also, he loves Jesus so much that he sees any other religion as false and a threat.

Why should your "traditional views" be chosen over his.

Point: You and Santorum are both guilty of a desire to infringe on other citizen's liberty. Do you see the irony?

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12 Replies

  • Douglas Goodman 1 month ago Ben, "he loves Jesus so much ...

  • Omar Shaukat 1 month ago All I can say is - you have not und...

Ben,
"he loves Jesus so much that he sees any other religion as false and a threat." What religions do you; I'm assuming you agree with Santorum, see as a threat? What is your interpretation to the 1st Amendment stand on freedom of religion? Your statement is scary.

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2 Replies

  • Benjamin Waller 1 month ago My apologies. Let me attempt to cle...

My apologies. Let me attempt to clear up my former statement. I think Santorum is a fool. I have no religious views. I respect the right of an individual to hold any religious view, whether it be belief in Jesus, Allah, Brahman, or the Flying Spaghetti Monster. I was condemning the belief that legislation should be dictated by religious doctrine, or that this country is bound to a specific religion.

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  • Douglas Goodman 1 month ago Ben, Thank you for clearing that u...

Ben,
Thank you for clearing that up. I'll have to look in to the Flying Spaghetti Monster.

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All I can say is - you have not understood the point I am making.

Look at the reasons why I prefer Paul over Santorum. It is not just because of Islamophobia. It also has to do with Paul's willingness to move issues of sexual ethics from out of the jurisdiction of the federal government.

I dont know how you inferred I "desire to infringe on other citizen's liberty." Also, you seem to be in a haste in concluding that I am arguing for my traditional views to "be chosen over" Santorum's traditional views.

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8 Replies

  • Benjamin Waller 1 month ago I apologize if I misunderstood. ...

I apologize if I misunderstood.

I was going off statements such as:

"My desires for a traditionally religious America"
"the party represented the moral hope for America"
"congruence over issues of public morality"
"the relation between law and morality"

It would appear that you support legislating morality, which is informed by one's religious views. One moral view would be chosen over others.

Is my analysis inaccurate?

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7 Replies

  • Omar Shaukat 1 month ago Ok lets try to clear up the misunde...

  • Benjamin Waller 1 month ago Your comment clears up my confusion...

  • Omar Shaukat 1 month ago No worries. And I apologize for not...

Ok lets try to clear up the misunderstanding.

The first three quotes - do not entail that I am of the opinion that traditional religious values should be legislated for one and all. If I want to see a traditionally religious America, it is purely a cultural issue. The party representing the moral hope for American, again is best understood as my desire for traditionally religious America. And the congruence is over issues like whether my tax dollars should be used to subsidize abortion.

Most importantly, if you look at the link before the fourth quote. Ron Paul is specifically saying in there - laws can reflect morality, but they cannot be used to shape morality.

Thus my basic point - the social conservatives should try to be more paleo

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Your comment clears up my confusion, and I respect the position you have just clarified.

I also admire that Ron Paul seeks to protect the right to practice religion or not practice religion. While I personally take issue with the majority of religious groups, your stance of protecting the right to hold these views is in line with my own.

Thanks for the response. I apologize for the misunderstanding.

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No worries. And I apologize for not being clearer.

Anyway thats why we discuss things - to remove misunderstanding and clarify ourselves.

peace!

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Omar, ". . . whether my tax dollars should be used to subsidize abortion."

Your tax dollars do not subsidize anything. That's the point I tried to make. If taxes were reduced to $0 or raised to $100 trillion, the ability of the government to spend would not change. Federal spending relies neither on taxing nor borrowing. This is the lesson of Monetary Sovereignty, which is different from monetary non-sovereignty (i.e. you, me, states, PIIGS).

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Hmm..Ok, I will have to look into the economic facts/theory behind this. Many thanks for the links!

However, the problem from political philosophy still remains. If the government is the government of the people, and as many assume, some kind of social contract theory assumption is grounding this view - then when that government does anything (whether good or bad), I am also complicit in its actions.

Anyway, thanks for clarification. And please pardon my grumpiness - when I have to defend myself from charges (not made by you but others) of not being a good enough American, I guess I can get a little upset :)!

peace.

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Hmm..Ok, I will have to look into the economic facts/theory behind this. Many thanks for the links!

However, the problem from political philosophy still remains. If the government is the government of the people, and as many assume, some kind of social contract theory assumption is grounding this view - then when that government does anything (whether good or bad), I am also complicit in its actions.

Anyway, thanks for clarification. And please pardon my grumpiness - when I have to defend myself from charges (not made by you but others) of not being a good enough American, I guess I can get a little upset :)!

peace.

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Valid point. And I don't mind your grumpiness, as that is a state I've found myself in for the past 50+ years.

As for being complicit, I agree, and discuss this at:
http://rodgermmitchell.wordpress.com/2012/01/17/what-is-your-ideal-for-the-most-powerful-job-in-the-world-president-of-the-united-states/

You (and I et al) most definitely are responsible.

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Fantastic and fascinating article. It is great to get a perspective different than my own on the shifting Republican landscape, and how it can alienate some traditional GOP supporters.

While I don't see eye to eye with Mr. Paul on his stance of extremely limiting government (the system is too big and too many people rely on it now to shut it down completely), I do think that he has, somehow, come across as one of the more moderate Republicans in this debate. I can absolutely see how he would appeal to a voter with the sensibilities you described in the above article.

Mr. Shaukat, what is your opinion on the front-runner--Mitt Romney? Into which of the three conservative categories would he fall?

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1 Replies

  • Omar Shaukat 1 month ago Thanks Don. My opinion of Romney...

Thanks Don.

My opinion of Romney is that he seems to want to be a little bit of all three, it just depends on the audience he is in front of and then tries to appeal to them.
(Also, keep in mind that I mentioned the categories as ideal-types, that is - abstractions. No Republican is just one or the other, and most people dont even separate these threads that actively).

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Hoping the GOP stops being homophobic, biggoted, racist, and exclusionary? Good luck with that.

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2 Replies

  • Omar Shaukat 1 month ago Haha. Fair point. But maybe Andy Du...

Haha. Fair point. But maybe Andy Dufresne said it best: "Remember Red, hope is a good thing, maybe the best of things, and no good thing ever dies." Thanks

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  • Lawrence Sampson 1 month ago Yeah and look what he had to crawl ...

Yeah and look what he had to crawl through....lol

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You can be R and blessings to you--but you'll be as effective as the LCRs, AARs, and HispanicRs in changing the jingoistic, racists and xenophobic Rs. Paleocons are opposed to open immigration by non-Europeans; that would be you. They also oppose religious pluralism and support orthodoxy of the doctrine within the respective denominations. They stress the importance of the need of America to return to its christian heritage; that's not you!

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Limited government is nonsense. The more budgets get cut and taxes go up, the weaker economies become. Here are two equations in economics:

Federal Deficits – Net Imports = Net Private Savings (Cut deficits and you cut savings.)

Gross Domestic Product = Federal Spending + Private Investment and Consumption + Net exports (Cut federal spending and you reduce GDP)

The author should try to learn Monetary Sovereignty (www.nofica.com)

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10 Replies

  • Ben Poole 1 month ago Roger, Using your equation (its ...

  • Omar Shaukat 1 month ago Thank you for telling me what I sho...

Roger,

Using your equation (its off. You need a negative in front):
-Federal Deficits – Net Imports = Net Private Savings

-15.2 Trillion - .5 Trillion = -15.7 Trillion. (Net Private Loss, the negative does that)
Yes we are going broke with huge losses.

You can increase the GDP by growing government expenditures. You can increase expenditures till bankruptcy where the country will have almost no GDP or they print more money and the money becomes worthless. At some point we can't pay the interest on the debt.

You think you can spend your way to riches? No wonder Obama got elected.

References:
http://rodgermmitchell.wordpress.com/2011/12/19/federal-deficits-net-imports-net-private-savings/
http://www.brillig.com/debt_clock/

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5 Replies

  • Rodger Mitchell 1 month ago The equation is correct. That'...

The equation is correct. That's the point. Increases in deficits increase Private Saving. The myth about printing money causing inflation has not been true since we became Monetarily Sovereign. See: http://rodgermmitchell.wordpress.com/2010/04/06/more-thoughts-on-inflation/

Monetarily Sovereign governments cannot go "broke." Learn MS

" The more budgets are cut and taxes go up, the weaker economies become." Michael Schuman.

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4 Replies

  • Ben Poole 1 month ago Rodger your right we can't go ...

  • Ben Poole 1 month ago ok after re-reading what I first wr...

  • Rodger Mitchell 1 month ago Sorry you haven't read Monetar...

Rodger your right we can't go "broke" but we most certainly can go into hyper-inflation.

Here are the flaws in his argument
1. Federal debt must be paid back by taxpayers.
Incorrect. Foreign countries own about 30% of our debt & China is a big purchaser. But they could not purchase & sell. They may dump them on the market (radical move but a real possible threat). This causes yields & interest rates to go way up. (lower price/higher yield) Resulting in massive increase in our deficit because the interest is so large

The other points made in the article all follow back to the first incorrect premise. Perhaps most of the last century before our trade surplus was so negative and foreign ownership of our debt was less it was true. Not now

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ok after re-reading what I first wrote, I discovered I need to clarification.

You can't tax the rich over 100%. That wouldn't cover our losses. Who works for nothing? Could they pay more is debatable but not your position. We are out of control. If the interest payments go up in a escalated fashion, you couldn't tax enough of gross income to pay the debt. We would instantly have to cut or become in technical default. (Our credit rating was lowered for a reason). The top 5 percent earned 31.7 percent of the nation's adjusted gross income, and pay about 58.7 percent of federal individual income taxes.

Likely scenario. We'll go from 100% GDP to 120% GDP by 2016.

If you want Europe, go live there. But, if you want sound policy vote Paul.

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Sorry you haven't read Monetary Sovereignty, else you would know that unlike state and local taxes, federal taxes don't pay for federal spending. If federal taxes fell to $0 or rose to $100 trillion, neither event would affect the federal government's ability to spend by even $1.

Those who do not understand the difference, between Monetary Sovereignty and monetary non-sovereignty, do not understand economics.

Japan's debt is 220% GDP.

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No historical relationship between federal deficits and inflation. See: http://rodgermmitchell.wordpress.com/2010/04/06/more-thoughts-on-inflation/
Government could pay all debt tomorrow by crediting debt owners' checking accounts. This does not create money, so has no inflationary implications.
If you knew Monetary Sovereignty, you would know federal debt isn't the total of federal deficits.
Why do you prefer to talk rather than learning MS?

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Thank you for telling me what I should be doing. By the way my undergraduate degree was in Economics.

Now, if I may do unto you what you have done unto me - you should try to read my article more closely.

While a big part of it, limited government does not just refer to issues of banking regulation, monetary supply etc - or economic issues more broadly. In fact, I did not discuss economics at all.

Maybe your point would have been better put and I would have been more receptive if you said something to the effect - "While limited government is good because it does create any kind of morality police, it is not necessarily good for the economic health of the country."

Thanks and peace.

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3 Replies

  • Rodger Mitchell 1 month ago Was this addressed to Rodger Malcol...

Was this addressed to Rodger Malcolm Mitchell, who addressed nothing to you?

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  • Omar Shaukat 1 month ago In that case, there must have been ...

  • Rodger Mitchell 1 month ago I apologize. Forgot you were the au...

In that case, there must have been some kind of misunderstanding. Because I got an email notification saying that Rodger Mitchell commented on my article and the email was linked to that comment of yours about "The author should try to learn Monetary Sovereignty (www.nofica.com)."

Pardon me if I am the culprit here.

sincerely.

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I apologize. Forgot you were the author. I'll go with this: " "Limiting deficits is unnecessary and bad for the economic health of the country. It reduces money supply growth, which is required for economic growth."

Sorry your degree was econ. You probably were taught pre-1971 economics, now obsolete. Suggest reading Monetary Sovereignty: http://rodgermmitchell.wordpress.com/2010/08/13/monetarily-sovereign-the-key-to-understanding-economics/

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This is an interesting and surprising article. I did not have the impression that Muslims opposed abortion and called such opposition "pro-life", as the evangelical Christians do. Ron Paul isn't in the running, so I'd say his popularity w/Muslims is irrelevant.

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1 Replies

  • Omar Shaukat 1 month ago Not all Muslims hold the same opini...

Not all Muslims hold the same opinions as mine. There is indeed a great diversity of opinion on abortion etc. However, I think there might be more than a few who also agree with my take on these issues. And yes you are right - if he doesnt get the nomination their vote does not matter (even if he does, they are not a substantial enough of a block). However, what matters is the overall trajectory of the Republican party, and their relationship with Muslim-Americans.

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Well, Paul may get the Muslim vote but he's not going to get the Republican nod to run against Obama. And you told us why: "I am attracted to his paleo-conservative tendencies, even if his radical libertarianism might give me some pause." Trouble is, his radicalism gives mainstream Americans more than pause. Romney is the Republicans' man and he's not going to defeat Obama. Well, unless the EU folds like a cheap suit and Israel attacks Iran. Then, all bets are off.

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  • Muhamed Qira 1 month ago Well if the US needs to push the el...

Well if the US needs to push the election in a certain direction, then we will go to war. If Ron Paul does well, they will create the fear of attack, maybe even create another lie for the sake of war support, and the fear of a peacefully president.

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Thanks for the links outlining how once again this government is more concerned about pleasing every group that comes to this nation than its own original goal of 'one nation'. America was given the name Melting Pot because when the first immigrants came to this nation they melted into a new nation. Today, it appear immigrants come here for our freedoms and benefit but have no intention of abiding and embracing our culture and our laws. How many nations and cultures are we expected to please on individual levels to keep our Melting Pot simmering?

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7 Replies

  • Douglas Goodman 1 month ago Kathleen, No more melting pot - h...

  • Omar Shaukat 1 month ago How true Dear Kathleen. I think you...

Kathleen,
No more melting pot - how true. Ever wonder why it's _______-American instead of American of________ decent? One problem is our permanent residency visa system. People immigrate, raise their families, and die w/o becoming citizens. How about 1) give a citizenship application at the time a residency visa is issued, due in 5 years. 2)at the 4 yr point, send a reminder it's due (if it hasn't been received) 3) at the end of 5th year, no application, you go home and can not return unless the application is turned in. I said this in another post and received a comment that immigration is more complex. I agreed.

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  • Kathleen Quinn 1 month ago Douglas, I like your suggestions r...

Douglas,
I like your suggestions regarding visas. I have heard many people say why is it ----American. I agree. Immigration has become complex because the rules have become so relaxed they barely exist. There was a time when immigrants took great pride in their new country and were grateful for the freedom to live with the opportunity and hope for a better life. The rest was up to them. They blended into this culture. Today it is reversed. Americans are expected to blend into the multitude of other cultures in every area of society. Don't get me wrong; I love diversity. But when it diminishes & negates our entire system to change for each group it becomes selfish & self-serving instead of a united nation.

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How true Dear Kathleen. I think you have just figured me out!

As an immigrant I came for the freedoms and benefits - education in my case, but have no intention of abiding and embracing your culture and laws.

I guess that is why I am trying to determine what is the best way forward for America. What is the best hope for the Republicans. Why it takes Colin Powell to make me realize I need to reassess how I should vote.

Having encountered your encouraging attitude - I will now gladly rekindle the fire under this melting pot and throw myself in it.

Many thanks for your illuminating comments!

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4 Replies

  • Kathleen Quinn 1 month ago Hi Omar, I appreciate your sincere ...

Hi Omar, I appreciate your sincere & honest responses. As a second generation immigrant I experienced living in a neighborhood of first generation immigrants whose family spoke german, italian, yiddish, chinese. They were very grateful to this country & its laws. Most lived in households with parents & grandparents speaking another language; another culture. They respected & honored their native home but acknowledged that life in America was better for them; more freedoms & opportunities. Please help me understand why today people feel it is OK to benefit from this country's hard fought freedoms but not our laws.I do not understand why new immigrants have a negative response to our laws & feel we need to have separate laws & courts.

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3 Replies

  • Omar Shaukat 1 month ago Dear Kathleen, I am in no position ...

  • Kathleen Quinn 1 month ago Hi Omar, I am disappointed you are ...

  • Omar Shaukat 1 month ago I will have an open dialogue when t...

Dear Kathleen, I am in no position to answer your question. But I can suggest the following - next time you run into "these people," - I mean an immigrant who not only is part of these "these people" but also speaks on their behalf, please invite him/her for a free coffee and cake (it would be difficult to lull them otherwise, you know you have to hang the carrot, have to offer something for free) and then get them to answer this question. Be careful though, they might decide to violate some law, maybe run away with your purse? So keep your possessions safely hidden away and only interact with them in public.

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Hi Omar, I am disappointed you are not in a position to answer my question. Open dialogue allows people to question and understand people in a give and take from various cultures in the hopes of improving communication. That was the world I grew up in and the one I try to live in. My intention was to receive some understanding. Apparently, I was wrong in my assumptions.

No where did I refer to anyone as "those people" or "these people" nor did I accuse anyone of stealing. Such statements are often put against people who had no malice in mind.

You mention joining the melting pot. I don't think you would like it. It involves people learning to accept differences and blend together. Good luck with your education goals.

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I will have an open dialogue when there is respect to begin with. As I did with others here, despite our disagreements.

Your very first comment said - "how once again this government is more concerned about pleasing every group that comes to this nation than its own original goal of 'one nation'" - my article never said that!

It also said - "Today, it appear immigrants come here for our freedoms and benefit but have no intention of abiding and embracing our culture and our laws." - my article never suggested that! You seem to have inferred that on your own.

Now, if you dont find your comments rude then I dont think I can say anything else to convince you. I am a citizen like you. Not just trying to get benefits.

Thanks and peace.

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A very interesting perspective. How American Muslims vote may not decide the election; who they support as a voting block could sway voters away from that candidate - Islamophobia, if Muslims support that shows the candidate supports Muslims. I have thoughts on how Islamic leaders could defuse Islamophobia, but that's not the thesis of this article so I won't add those here.

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6 Replies

  • Ben Poole 1 month ago There is only one cure for any fear...

There is only one cure for any fear and that is education. But, I will admit silence on the part of moderates does not make a compelling case for understanding when outrageous acts are committed. Riots over cartoons - there's an expression for that "if they can't take a joke... ".I have no time for Jeremiah Wright or his ilk regardless if they are preachers or not - they're Pharisaical scum. Same is true of Imam's, or madrassa's administrators who spew hatred and teach suicide bombings that claim innocent lives. Most Jews hate the Jewish radicals.

The Islamist moderates must speak out against the radical Islamist horrors. If moderates speak up, they will be heard. Right now, their silence is deafening. People have disdain of all hypocrisy.

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  • Douglas Goodman 1 month ago Moderates not only have to speak, t...

  • Tarek Mostafa 1 month ago Can’t agree with you more, Ben. F...

Moderates not only have to speak, they need to take action to stop the radicals' actions. Countries can have their war on terror, but if the war is to be won, it must be fought by Muslims themselves. Words without action are meaningless.

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Can’t agree with you more, Ben. For these people religion is a form of trade, they just don’t care about human life, dignity or individual liberty. Theocracy is the worst form of dictatorship; it justifies criminal acts through what these people interpret as the divine law.
All these radicals are minorities within their communities, but they are more vocal than the silent majority. 9/11 was an alarm; even a small group like AlQaeda can set the world ablaze. But one of the problems is that countries like Iran and Saudi Arabia are powerful enough to stifle the moderates.
But, fortunately there are some other and better examples of how Islam can coexist within the framework of the secular state (Turkey). I hope this model would spread around.

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3 Replies

  • Douglas Goodman 1 month ago Tarek, If the Turkey model can be ...

  • Tarek Mostafa 1 month ago It would take some time, it took Tu...

  • Douglas Goodman 1 month ago I don't know if others have se...

Tarek,
If the Turkey model can be spread, the world would be a better place. The question is can Islamic moderates muster the strength to make it happen?

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It would take some time, it took Turkey 50 years and a strong secular government. The problem now is that, the previous dictatorships stifled all liberal forms of opposition (Egypt, Tunisia, etc). The only opposition that had a presence on the ground was the Islamists. However, what’s important now is that the Arab Spring created a space of freedom that neither the old dictatorships nor the Islamists can close down. Now, the Islamists won the first elections, but in due time other parties will rise and will challenge them.
So let’s wait and see, the coming 10 years will be quite interesting. What we are witnessing is a major shift in the ME (like the one that happened after the fall of the USSR).

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I don't know if others have seen a comparison to the fall of the USSR to what is happening in the Middle East. Having been in Germany when the wall came down as well as the Balkins, I agree with you.

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Let's take a look. Gingrich has compared muslims to nazis, Santorum has stated he wants to target all muslims at security checkpoints, Perry cannot say anything without mentioning his faith.

Romney, well, he's Romney, neutral on every issue known to man. A smart muslim would know that a Romney presidency would be the continuation of the status quo.

So this article's title is not too far off at all. No empiric study necessary.

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No one has the right to speak for me, and there are millions like me who if possible for them, they would say the same thing to you!!!.
No one ever has the right to claim what I believe or not, or what is my opinion about issues or groups! Humans are not bound by grouping ropes!

Some individuals claim what their religion is or is not, not knowing what their own religion is about. How they can speak about other religions?
Thanks Hamrick

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I appreciate your title "A Muslim-American Perspective on the GOP..." because it implies the plurality of political opinions among Muslim Americans. While I share your views on Islamaphobia and foreign policy, I am pro-choice and support same-sex marriages, which influence my party choice.

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5 Replies

  • Ben Poole 1 month ago Interesting. But, party affiliation...

  • Sehreen Noor Ali 1 month ago Paul also supported the Defense of ...

  • Omar Shaukat 1 month ago Indeed. I was only trying to descri...

Interesting. But, party affiliation based on those two items though good are not the most important if you wish to have a land at all free or otherwise. As your rights are taken away through mandates, eventually a right wing group may emerge to take away any rights you may get later.

I fight for the rights of women and of LGBT as individuals making their own choices by their own free will. Paul, though personally aligned to pro-life (I am also) does not think the Fed Gov should be involved in legislation send it back to the states. SCOTUS decisions stand with little chance of passing an amendment to overturn it. Marriage is a religious institution. We need to keep religion out of government and visa versa.

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1 Replies

  • Sehreen Noor Ali 1 month ago I agree, Ben. My party affiliation ...

I agree, Ben. My party affiliation is determined by many more issues. That being said, I want an administration that actively supports the freedom of these choices, not just cedes all power to the states.

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Paul also supported the Defense of Marriage Act and co-sponsored the Marriage Protection Act, both of which I oppose. Lastly, while you and I may consider marriage a religious institution, I am not comfortable with forcing that perspective to others who do not believe in religion.

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1 Replies

  • Ben Poole 1 month ago I agree those are true facts. But, ...

I agree those are true facts. But, I respect your opinion and do understand you have a fair grasp. I would love to debate Paul on the 14th and 13th Amendments as it has to do with women's choice. Just please look at the NDAA, undeclared war of Libya (and ignoring the War Powers Act), ties to Wall Street (including bailout and millions in donations) and all Obama's broken promises in his control that could have been kept. We now have another new entitlement [GWB did us no favors with Part D] but we all will pay a heavy price for it. I'm waiting on the SCOTUS to determine constitutionality for that is far from assured. SCOTUS will have a lot of bad news for the admin come summer in over reach.

But, I understand your stance and respect it.

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Indeed. I was only trying to describe my view and those that are similar to it - for example, that link to Hamza Yusuf's comment.

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An interesting article. I'd like to poke at one inconsistency. Pro-life attitudes are primarily anchored in religious justifications. If you're going to support that kind of intrusion of religion into legislation, isn't anti-Sharia legislation the other side of the same coin?

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15 Replies

  • Kevin Ryan 1 month ago You're right about that typica...

  • Omar Shaukat 1 month ago To get at everything in 600 words i...

You're right about that typical justification. Ron Paul's is centered around his experience as an OB/GYN and from having worked in a Hospital that performed abortions.

I am pro choice myself, but there is no way in the world I can argue with the good doctor on this topic.

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9 Replies

  • JC Garcia 1 month ago The beauty of Paul's view on a...

  • Michael Weiss 1 month ago KR: RP is wrong about the science--...

The beauty of Paul's view on abortion is that his libertarian ideals of individual liberty, ie. a woman's right to choose, outweighs any moral anchor carried by religion. His ideology simplifies abortion to be a state matter. Let the people decide, locally, how to deal with the matter. Subsidizing abortion I cant agree with, but as a prochoice, pro-liberty American, I'm confident that Paul's ideas are the path forward.

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5 Replies

  • Zachary Taylor 1 month ago If a woman has a "right" ...

  • JC Garcia 1 month ago The woman's right and the unbo...

  • Michael Weiss 1 month ago I hate to disappoint: "Dr. Pau...

If a woman has a "right" to choose, why does it matter if a state government or a federal government takes that right away? Similarly, if Ron Paul actually holds the pro-life beliefs, then why does he not believe unborn children are protected by the Due Process clause of the 14th Amendment, which applies to state and local governments as well as the federal one?

Either way you look at it, Ron Paul's states' rights position on abortion is an inconsistent cop-out.

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The woman's right and the unborn's right is unquestionably at odds with one another. I can agree there. Yet, Paul supports individual liberty first and foremost and he has held strong to this for decades, so I don't call that a cop out as much as integrity.

That he personally supports prolife, and still defends the prochoice states to maintain their own stance, speaks volumes of his core integrity to advocate individual liberty.

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I hate to disappoint: "Dr. Paul’s experience in science and medicine only reinforced his belief that life begins at conception, and he believes it would be inconsistent for him to champion personal liberty and a free society if he didn’t also advocate respecting the God-given right to life—for those born and unborn." RP doesn't believe in a women's right to choose and he's wrong about science--fetus can't survive until at least 28-wks gestation.

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Without monetary support for poor people to exercise their rights they are but a gong! You're creating, just as RP, a straw-man argument that you're prochoice but don't believe in providing the choice to poor women! If you don't fund abortion for the poor, you're not prochoice. And RP is also against funding PP that provides no abortions w/ federal money but reproductive health to women and men including birth control education and access.

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Viability is not the same thing as "life," especially not when one views it as a "God-given right." Beware of straw-manning his argument, which doesn't deny science but isn't primarily based on it either.

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KR: RP is wrong about the science--a fetus cannot survive until 28-weeks gestation, and then only with the most miraculuous help of technology and specialist Nurses and MD/DOs! Many states don't even have these capabilities in every community; viability is 35 wks . Motility of sperm and division of cellular material and different ion of organs doesn't make life viable or human. RP is making his determination on his affective response --not sci.

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2 Replies

  • Ben Poole 1 month ago Michael, No one, not even POTUS ...

  • Michael Weiss 1 month ago My comment was directed at KR, who ...

Michael,

No one, not even POTUS can have a say in it other than opinion. The talk of not being for Paul because he doesn't or even if he did support abortion is irrelevant because the SCOTUS decision demarcating the line is not subject to Congress but to a Constitutional Amendment. Even then the 2/3 majority makes a POTUS mute because it the same level to over ride any veto. They really have no say. Its all about appealing to a certain demographic in rhetoric.

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My comment was directed at KR, who assigned an erroneous power to RP that because he was an MD he knew when life begins and that abortion is wrong. I disagree about the impotence of POTUS to effect American Taliban's agenda either promoting it or ensure it remains separate from our government. Moreover, words matter and I weigh RP's rhetoric with his "integrity" toward prochoice and LGBT legislation.

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To get at everything in 600 words is difficult. I had hoped my point about limited government would make it clearer that I want to minimize legislation of morality.

Also pro-life attitudes can mean a variety of things. All I was getting at was that I do not want my tax dollars to subsidize abortion.

Thanks

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4 Replies

  • David Karger 1 month ago It's disingenuous for you to a...

It's disingenuous for you to argue about *your* tax dollars subsidizing abortion. I don't want _my_ tax dollars paying for sports stadiums, agriculture subsidies, or oil drilling. So let's just assume that *my* tax dollars are paying for abortion and *yours* are paying for those things.

Everything the government funds is objectionable to some citizen. If we only funded what everyone wanted, we'd have no government at all.

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3 Replies

  • Omar Shaukat 1 month ago Make an argument for your stance ag...

  • David Karger 1 month ago I should have phrased more carefull...

  • Omar Shaukat 1 month ago Thanks. But I wasnt making an argum...

Make an argument for your stance against sport stadiums etc, convince me and I will support you :)! Anyway, you should refrain from suggesting that people are being "disingenuous." You cannot be a judge of my sincerity. So lets stick to keeping the discussion free of that kind of stuff?

And I dont see how you are highlighting an inconsistency. Lay out your logic on where the inconsistency is and then we can take it from there.

peace

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I should have phrased more carefully. It's the*argument* that's disingenuous. It plays on people's sense of fairness by implying that the government is spending *their* money on something they disapprove, when in fact they're spending someone else's.

I've always thought it would be a good idea for the government to give people some check-boxes that would let them allocate some fraction of their taxes to specific government agencies---this would give a feeling of power, but would have no real impact as the governmnet could move the other money around to counterbalance people's choices.

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Thanks. But I wasnt making an argument there. I was saying this is what I mean by "pro-life." So there is no argument for it to be a disingenuous.

Your original point still needs to be better understood by me. You said something about logical inconsistency - "Pro-life attitudes are primarily anchored in religious justifications. If you're going to support that kind of intrusion of religion into legislation, isn't anti-Sharia legislation the other side of the same coin?"

I would like you to explain this - where do you detect the inconsistency?

Also, read these, they might help:
http://www.utilitarian.net/singer/by/1995----03.htm
http://familydoctormag.com/sexual-health/251-when-does-life-begin-medical-experts-debate-abortion-issue.html

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Most Muslims would gravitate to the GOP if not for the jingoism and bigotry in certain of its wings. Nice article.

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The above opinion is that of the writer of the article. I hope, it is clear that one opinion does not represent all -- regardless of spiritual/ religious believes !
I also firmly believe that no one has the right to generalize opinion of one person and patch it to group(s) of people who right or wrong are considered to believe in certain ways. I would not claim that all democrats or all republicans, or all independents are moral or immoral.

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Here we go again with another Muslim perspective that IGNORES the culpability of Muslims in the reason why America is suddenly "Islamophobic." While I agree that historically all religions are "drenched in innocent blood," it is only Islam that finds that blood still flowing at a shocking rate. The other major religions' blood dried and blew away long ago. Before you go blaming the GOP for being evil against poor, innocent Islam, perhaps looking internally and helping to STOP Muslims from murdering everyone that disagrees with them is a good idea? As to Ron Paul, his day is done. I would not waste much time worrying about him. Finally, your "Islamophobia" is sort of a ruse, anyway. FBI hate crime stats show Muslims barely register as a blip

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18 Replies

  • Ben Poole 1 month ago Mr Huston, To the wonderment of ...

  • Michael Weiss 1 month ago WTH:you can't be so ignorant o...

  • Omar Shaukat 1 month ago Dear Sir. I wish you would have rea...

Mr Huston,

To the wonderment of people like you, people who support Paul are well read on issues, they dig for truth, they see the hypocrisy and the purse strings of the special interests of Romney and Obama. The GOP will reform or it will die. This is the last shot of honest attempting to work within the framework that most independents will do. I'm fighting for them to vote for any GOP with a pulse against Obama. But, to negate and silent our vote by dismissing as the MSM does - isn't wrong its unpatriotic and un-American. We will fight the entire way to the GOP campaign. And we will fight BOTH candidates on truth and issues. No longer silent. No more "Trust me". So far the last POTUS GOP was the 2nd worse POTUS ever - Obama being #1.

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8 Replies

  • Warner Todd Huston 1 month ago Anti-Jewish conspiracy theories are...

Anti-Jewish conspiracy theories are not "truth." Ignoring Paul's newsletters in favor of some unbelievable claim that he never knew anything about them is not "truth." Pretending Paul's isolationist, 1920s world view is a good idea is not "truth." Accepting Paul's left-wing anti-Americanism is not "truth."

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7 Replies

  • Ben Poole 1 month ago Please relieve your misunderstandin...

  • Warner Todd Huston 1 month ago You don't know anything about ...

  • Ben Poole 1 month ago No where in the posts above do I sa...

Please relieve your misunderstanding and look up the difference between isolationism and non-interventionism. Paul is non-imperialist anyway or non-interventionism in other nations militarily. Paul is more truthful than any running for POTUS. He doesn't dodge the questions. You don't like what you hear your free to vote for your choice. But please get your facts straight.

You challenge you on: "Paul's left-wing anti-Americanism".

Your opinions on truth and even your understanding of the deceptions that Romney or Obama tell is greatly suspect.

John Quincy Adams wrote that the U.S. "goes not abroad in search of monsters to destroy.

Obviously, John Quincy Adams is closer to Paul & truth.

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You don't know anything about me, pal, so I'd appreciate your laying off the "you people" and your idiotic assumptions of what I think about Obama and/or Romney. You've never seen me write a single thing about Romney or Obama, yet you've decided what I think about them. THIS is the sort of conspiracy theory foolishness to which Paulanistas are prone. Ron Paul's followers are the LaRouchies or the Birchers of the day. They should be treated that way.

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No where in the posts above do I say (in quotes may I add) "you people". Some see what they want to see. It can be explained as self induced myopic obtenebration.

"Suspect" is a word in the dictionary.

Paulanistas - Couldn't find it on Google. It appears you made this up as the rest.

LaRouche is far from Paul. And I'm a supporter not a "follower". We have elections. We support our candidates.

Birchers may be closer as Paul does oppose collectivism, Totalitarianism, communism, socialism, and fascism. Is that bad or do you espouse one of those ideologies?

How do you treat people who are "followers" of LaRouche or John Birch Society?

This is what is wonderful in a free society. You are entitled to express your views no matter how vile.

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You said, "To the wonderment of people like you"... so really? You are going to quibble?? Again, you know nothing at all about me. You Paulbots are a pip, you really are. Notice I never personalized any remark to you, yet your every reply was "you, you, you." I can't wait until this Primary is over and Ron Paul drifts into the long night and we can get on with things and finally stop worry about him.

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Paul started a movement that will not be denied after the next 4 years of garbage. Look at the GOP, with the exception of Paul, that's all they have to offer? After Obama gets elected again they will be looked upon as "The ones who failed to beat Obama." And this will be all due to the fact that they simply wouldn't compromise, let alone talk, with Ron Paul on foreign policy, and proceeded to throw his dedicated, independent voters under the bus

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The neoconservative wing of the Republican party will soon be gone and the Libertarian/Republican wing will have the ball in their hand.

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Nice pronouncements. Meaningless, of course, but nice bravado, anyway. It's never any surprise to me that a hugh proportion of Paulinistas are under 30 years of age. Babes in politics, if you will.

I do believe, though, that the "libertarian" strain has become far more prevalent in the GOP over the last few years (and good thing, too). Paul is not responsible for it, of course, but he didn't hurt it, for sure. It has been growing since 1980 under Reagan, really.

Now, let's just hope that the isolationism and the left-wingism of Ron Paul fades while his good part (like his economic ideas) stay.

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WTH:you can't be so ignorant of the holy war that the American Taliban is waging against the legal purveyors of abortion services!They have shed blood, interfered with peoples ability to move freely, tortured women with abusive and physical threats, killed, assaulted, firebombed and blown up property and people. And they are defunding programs and making HC providers tell LIES about fetus viability to torture women exercising their rights. Shame!

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7 Replies

  • Warner Todd Huston 1 month ago You can't be such a halfwit to...

You can't be such a halfwit to imagine that anti-abortion activists are "the American Taliban." But, on second thought, maybe you are?

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6 Replies

  • Michael Weiss 1 month ago So they didn't kill people? Th...

  • Warner Todd Huston 1 month ago Seriously, you need to get a grip. ...

  • Michael Weiss 1 month ago You haven't answered my questi...

So they didn't kill people? They didn't tortue women by making them watch medically unnecessary videos or force them to deny the science behind viability? They didn't blow up private property? They didn't try to get the myth of creationism in the school curriculum? They aren't torturing LGBTs by denying them their civil rights? That's only a small part of the American Taliban's agenda!

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Seriously, you need to get a grip. You are way, way, WAY out there.

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You haven't answered my question: Did they kill people? Do they not actively entice others to meet the abortionists with violence? This is a holy war being waged by the American Taliban and if you condemn these practices than simply declare it here. Otherwise, GFYUTA!

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I didn't answer it because it is stupid. Using your (lack of) logic, all PETA activists, all environmentalists, et al are "Taliban" or "terrorists" because some few of their members have killed people (and they have) over their cause. But regardless that I despise these sort of people, I would not label them all terrorists over what their most idiotic and extreme members have done. Yet here you are doing that to anti-abortion activists! The fact is, every human endeavor has a few psychotic humans in it that will kill over it all. The trick is to see if it is pervasive or far from normative behavior. In the end you just make yourself look foolish and I am happy to sit by while you make yourself look like a nutcase.

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Your claim disparages people who are truly psychotic. These violent people are very sane and cite violence as their solution to women's rights. Couple that direct violence with the psychwarfare aspects of their interference with women's education and access to birth control, you have your holy war. I do call people who cite violence from any movement as terrorists. But the American Taliban is apt for this movement; forcing fund. theology on us!

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Yeah "forcing" a "theology" on us. Just like Pro-infanticders do. Just like atheists do. Just like Democrat socialists do. just like football fans do. Just like.... as I said, I'll just sit back while you prove yourself to be unhinged.

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Dear Sir. I wish you would have read the article more carefully. Paul and Powell are Republicans. So it cannot be said that I was "blaming the GOP for being evil against poor, innocent Islam."

Its not about frequency of hate crimes. What I was trying to get at was - how as an American I have to juggle multiple concerns in shaping my political loyalties. As, King said - "Injustice anywhere is a threat to justice everywhere." Whether the injustice is in Pakistan, in the US, or in Colombia - if one knows about it, one should also be worried about it.

Last, you remind me of those Muslims who - when I criticize them for being America-phobic, say that I should only criticize Americans. There is plenty of blame to go round.

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I appreciate how you show us your thought process and the many complexities of creating a political identity in this country. Great article.

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I haven't heard Romney or Gingrich talk in Islamophobic terms, unless you equate opposition to Iran's nuclear threat to be anti-Islamic, which is quite a stretch of logic. Even the people of Iran don't like their government, so it's hardly representative of Islam.

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Many American's don't know Paul. Most get their information from MSM which slams Paul with slants and "he is unelectable" as though they decide for all. Paul is not racist, weak on defense or a warmonger

Though I speak out warning of radical ideology within Islam. I do not speak that Islam itself is evil. Yet, Islam, Christianity, and Judaism's history is drenched in innocent blood. But a group or nation is not a religion. Any one is not all.

Peace is not a do nothing proposition. Discernment of understanding and knowledge with dialogue leads to peace just as fear mongering and incitement to violence preying on ignorance to war.

Always be circumspect and let no man deceive you. Study the budget & growing debt, actions of BO & vote Paul

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4 Replies

  • Dillon Zhou 1 month ago Being "unelectable" is on...

Being "unelectable" is one thing - as Huntsman has shown - but it's quite another thing to have a list of positions that most Democrats and Republicans won't support. If you thought Obama had problems with the GOP-dominated Congress, the Paul Administration - if it ever becomes a reality - will have far more difficult time getting its agenda done.

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3 Replies

  • Ben Poole 1 month ago Somethings can be undone by POTUS o...

  • JC Garcia 1 month ago You draw a valid parallel between P...

  • Zachary Taylor 1 month ago Especially given that Paul's c...

Somethings can be undone by POTUS on day one saving a lot of money. Militarily for one. We'd be out of war quickly and unless someone attacked us they'd be home. Also, foreign subsidies would end. We wouldn't be isolationist but we wouldn't be imperialist anymore. Executive orders in the Executive branch are pretty firm in delivering change. Direction on legislation, approval or reject delays(gone). Things would change.

But you are correct that not all of Paul's plans could he do without congress. If he wins the GOP then POTUS, I don't think the GOP will be opposed to him. Things will not be as deadlocked as you may think. They're deadlocked because many see detrimental effects of Obama rule and its long term effects to the US.

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You draw a valid parallel between Paul's potential presidency and Obama's experience so far. I can't discredit that but I will say that Paul brings a much needed dialogue to the political theatre. The challenges ahead of him does nothing to discredit the message he bears to all Americans... It's time to take the country back and he is the one with a different plan. No, he cant do half of the things he advocates, but the people are listening.

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Especially given that Paul's career in Congress consists of him A. voting "no" on nearly everything, usually on very dubious "Constitutional" grounds and B. introducing highly ideological bills that had no chance of ever passing. Voting for President Paul is basically like voting for "veto-everything."

And, ironically enough, many of the vetos Congress does override are against the worst Christmas Tree bills. So a Paul Presidency could very well increase the kind of behavior we want to discourage in Congress.

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I don't know if anyone else feels this way, but I don't see the facts to support the main assertion of this article. From a purely rhetorical point of view, Mr. Paul seems like someone who could appeal to Muslim-Americans, but where are the statistics to support this assertion. Where's the quantitative support?

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1 Replies

  • Omar Shaukat 1 month ago As far as I know there are no empir...

As far as I know there are no empirical studies to prove this. And the article was not meant to assert that thesis. I think the article becomes misleading because the editors added this bit to the headline "And Why Ron Paul Will Win the Muslim-American Vote." I had only meant to give my personal reasons and hypothesize that Muslim-Americans might find him agreeable. Thanks for catching that!

But we have numbers to show that Muslim-Americans heavily favored the Republicans in 2000. It was subsequent to that they predominantly voted Democrat. This article makes a similar point:
http://www.policymic.com/articles/2396/gop-could-sway-muslim-vote-if-it-weren-t-for-hateful-rhetoric

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Great article! What's ironic is that neo-conservatism, and even to an extent social conservatism, has its roots in trotskyism. The warhawks and gay haters aren't the limited government warriors they pretend to be, they want government that pursues their own ends to engineer society as they see fit.

Remember, the term "American exceptionalism" was coined by the leader of the American Communist party in the 1920s.

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12 Replies

  • JC Garcia 1 month ago Sure they want limited government.....

  • Zachary Taylor 1 month ago You seem to be confusing two sepera...

  • Omar Shaukat 1 month ago Thanks James. You were the first to...

Sure they want limited government... limited by the influence and self serving interests of the military complex.

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You seem to be confusing two seperate ideologies. Neoconservatives were origionally liberals who departed with the Democrats in the Carter and Reagan eras over foreign policy. They are not the Christian teligious tight by any means (many of them were in fact Jewish and secular) and are generally not homophobic. They also tend to support free markets, but not dogmatically and certainly not when it comes to military spending.

Libertarians often mix social conservatives and neocons together (because they take umbrage with both) but the mixture is inacurate. They depart with neocons on foreign policy, but not on most domestic issues, except concering civil liberties and security.

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5 Replies

  • James E. Miller 1 month ago You are confused on your history Za...

  • JC Garcia 1 month ago I'll let you two dish this out...

You are confused on your history Zach. Those who helped William Kristol launch the National Review weren't former liberals, they were former communists.
http://www.lewrockwell.com/north/north180.html

I didn't confuse the two ideologies, they are pretty much what you say. I never denied any of that except that neocons aren't as free market as they say. If they were, they would demand the end of the Fed.

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3 Replies

  • Zachary Taylor 1 month ago Lew Rockewell's site is hardly...

  • James E. Miller 1 month ago You are right, it was Irving. But ...

  • Michael Luciano 1 month ago I read LewRockwell.com too. Just do...

Lew Rockewell's site is hardly a reliable source. And it was Irving Kristol, not William, who founded the movement. He was once a Trotskyist, but he denounced those ideas, so it is false to say that that is where the "roots" of his movement lie.

The conflation comes with treating the "warhawks" and the "gay haters" as one group, not in criticizing their adherance to the free market. (However, you seem to be using a skewed definition-- a flexible money supply is certainly more "free" than the alternative of a government-set price on precious metals.)

Moreover, Neocons are motivated by a belief in democracy more than American exceptionalism. If they were pure exceptionists, they wouldn't believe Iraqis and Afghanis could except democracy.

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You are right, it was Irving. But you are wrong about LewRockwell, it's the most visited libertarian website in the world. It has syndicated columnists and well respected economists who write for it regularly, one of which I cited.

I never advocated for a government-set price on precious metals- don't put words in my mouth. I want a free market in money, meaning no government involvement.

And the people whom Kristol started NR with were previous communists. It wasn't just Kristol.

The idea that the nation state is the end all of end all is a Trotskyist idea- that's where the war hawk American exceptionalism comes in.

You made a number of rash and ill informed judgements in that post Zach- not sure where you get your ideas.

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I read LewRockwell.com too. Just don't take any medical advice from Joe Mercola.

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I'll let you two dish this out. But I will say, "a well earned mic to both of you" for expanding my vocabulary over the course of your discourse. This PolicyMic place is amazing and for that I am grateful.

Thanks Gentlemen...

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Thanks James. You were the first to comment and last to receive a reply!

I assume you have read Rothbard's Betrayal of the American Right?

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4 Replies

  • Ben Poole 1 month ago That's appropriate Omar. I co...

  • James E. Miller 1 month ago I haven't read the whole thing...

That's appropriate Omar. I concur with Rothbard (with caveats) but in general the imperialistic attitudes of the GOP were willing to sacrifice what their original presumption to the public as to the common welfare (helping all) instead to wage military interventionism around the world. In this common retaliation against extremist (probable religious) zeal, we are in agreement with Paul.

I am not opposed to your views at all. Nor, do I advocate fighting with Islam. But mutual respect. I am sincere about the deafening silence that comes from moderates whose whispers I can only hope are sincere.

In reality, it is your voice, not mine that is heard in your community. Only bravery in moderation can turn the tide of war. To have Peace is war

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2 Replies

  • Omar Shaukat 1 month ago Dear Ben, Thanks! This issue of dea...

  • Ben Poole 1 month ago Assalamu ‘alaikum wa rahmatullahi...

Dear Ben, Thanks! This issue of deafening silence actually needs to be analyzed better. If you mean deafening silence of Muslims in America (citizens or not) - then the problem is not with them as much as they are not organized (being a relatively young community), and depend on MSM to get their message across. Which as you know is not interested in representing truth, but rather selling a product. Groups like Islamic Society of North America, AMJA, Muslim Advocates, individuals like Hamza Yusuf, Hisham Kabbani, and many many more are working very hard as "moderate Muslims." Why dont they get as much attention as the fringe elements - I dont know. But this is not an initiative issue, its a structural and organizational problem. Peace!

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Assalamu ‘alaikum wa rahmatullahi wa barakatuh

Salam,

All of Islam. Is my truth I give to you.



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I haven't read the whole thing but I have read many excerpts. Good to know there are other readers of Rothbard out there!

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