OWS Brews Perfect Storm For 2012 Democratic Comeback

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OWS Brews Perfect Storm For 2012 Democratic Comeback

As Zuccotti Park’s protesters prepare for winter, determined to carry the Occupy Wall Street movement’s message through the cold season and beyond, a perfect political storm is forming that might help Democrats keep the White House in 2012 – despite stubbornly high unemployment and a frustratingly slow economic recovery.

The storm stems from the OWS movement’s growing popular appeal, as a new Wall Street Journal/NBC poll finds that an overwhelming majority of Americans (over three quarters) think the country's current economic structure “favors a very small portion of the rich over the rest of the country” – echoing the protesters’ calls to reduce the power of major banks and end tax breaks for corporations and the wealthy.

The finding comes after a new census measure found that a new record number of Americans (49.1 million) now live in poverty, after accounting for rising medical costs and other expenses. In addition, a Congressional Budget Office study recently corroborated the historic exacerbation of the country’s income inequality (or widening gap between the so-called 1% and 99%). Both developments are likely to stir new debate over changes to Social Security, Medicare, and other programs that assist the poor as a congressional Super Committee approaches the November 23 deadline to make cuts of over $1 trillion to the federal budget.

This spells trouble for Republicans who so far have campaigned on repealing financial regulation, opposing any form of tax increase on the wealthiest Americans, and slashing public spending. President Barack Obama and the Democrats seem to have taken note of it since the president’s Labor Day populist makeover and have lost no time hammering the GOP for their opposition to the jobs bill and other initiatives put forward to relieve the American middle class – a core message with broadening appeals as the country’s growing income gap is increasingly seen as one of our main economic ailments.

But there’s a silver lining for the GOP. The same WSJ/NBC poll also found that 53% of Americans believe the national debt and size of government must be cut “significantly.” This poses a challenge for Democrats as it may renew pressure to address the politically toxic issue of entitlement reform. So, even as the OWS movement’s popular appeal offers “glimmers of hope” to Obama’s uphill reelection battle, the president’s ultimate success will depend on how well he convinces his base that he is determined to save Medicare and Social Security while convincing vital centrist voters that he is serious about tackling our country’s pressing fiscal problems.

Photo Credit: Wikimedia Commons

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Alex Marin

Editor at PolicyMic. NYU alum. Previous gigs include: Newsweek and MSNBC. Find me in the intersection between politics & social media. ...

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Robb Carmichael

If 49.1 million Americans live in poverty, aside from the ones that prefer it, I think we should seriously take a look at the public education system that obviously didn't prepare them very well to make it in the economic world.

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Good grief. This one's not going to go away; is it? How DID y'all get out into the weeds of Charter Schools?

And what, Ms. Jeffords, is intrinsically wrong with taxes? We pay a portion of our income - in lieu of "in kind" contributions or our own forced labor to the government - as our contribution to the "general welfare." In return, the government provides for our defense and security, regulates interstate commerce, dispenses justice, etc. If our budget is unbalanced because a previous administration CUT tax rates; it doesn't seem too far a stretch to restore them, does it? OK, now, I bet I'm going to be mobbed by the
Austrian economists. [heavy sigh]

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I think both sides are right. But slashing government spending isn't the answer. What we need is a way for the government to get more money without levying more taxes. In Han China iron and salt were gov. monopolies. Why not something like that?

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2 Replies

  • Dennis Henry 6 months ago Christine, not having enough money ...

  • Christine Jeffords 6 months ago But if you have too much month at t...

Christine, not having enough money is NOT the problem, having too much month at the end of the money is, and translated into federaleese that means having too much government at the end of the budget. But that isn't true either, there has been no budget since The current ruling elite took office!!! How does that work?

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But if you have too much month at the end of the money, that means you don't have enough money! Same difference. So I repeat: the government needs to find ways to get money without more taxes (which Americans loathe). This could mean less spending, greater efficiency, a reformed tax code, other sources of income, or any combination thereof.

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After putting more thought into the topic I have come to conclude inequality isn't the real problem, its a problem but its not whats provoked such an outcry.

Despite the lip service we give to championing equality,America has always been a very unequal place, but we tolerated it because there has always been great potential for social mobility. We all picture ourselves leaders of tomorrow to some extent.

Lately though it seems that's not the case, that the system in place does a better job at making the rich even more so while making it harder for every one else who is not and that's where the problem is, our problem isn't that the rich are wealthy, but that they are using their wealth to become even more so at our expense.

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4 Replies

  • Dennis Henry 6 months ago America has never championed equali...

  • Dennis Henry 6 months ago Thomas, the objectionable inequalit...

  • Thomas Repetti 6 months ago That's what I mean by the last...

America has never championed equality.

America has always been about equal opportunity and only about equal opportunity. The idea did not exist that heritage, religion or caste could determine the future and fortunes of individuals. A man "created equal in the eyes of god" ought not be limited by an obscure notion of income equality, that despite hard work thrift and ambition dictate a life and offers no reward.

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Thomas, the objectionable inequality is the use of economic systems to limit the opportunity available to citizens or make the attempt so filled with usurious contracts that opportunity is effectively denied. It is not their use of wealth tho get wealthier that I object to, it is the use of their wealth to deny me the opportunity to make reasonable determinations about my own future.

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That's what I mean by the last paragraph. The system in place, set up by the industries and powerful people its design to protect advances their interests over the interest of every one else. They are using their power to enrich themselves while standing in the way of allowing others to do so.

I have no problem with people being rich or super rich, my problem is when they use that wealth to deny the rest of us the right to pursue happiness. I think in this you and I are in agreement.

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We hold these truths to be self-evident, that all men are created equal, that they are endowed by their Creator with certain unalienable Rights, that among these are Life, Liberty, and the Pursuit of Happiness.

I think the Declaration of Independence suggests otherwise. With that said, we do not always practice what we preach or live up to what we say. Though you are right, we are more importantly about having equal opportunity or at least we should be.

How well one succeeds should have little to do with what class they were born in, what creed they practice or the origin of the forefathers, what should matter its the metal of their character, the sharpness of their mind, and the strength of their work ethic.

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4 Replies

  • Jon Awbrey 6 months ago Mother Jones • “Schools for Sco...

  • Jon Awbrey 6 months ago The Perimeter Primate • “Charte...

  • Dennis Henry 6 months ago The concept of the charter school s...

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The concept of the charter school stands in conflict with public education today because the kids it competes for are the kids the schools need desperately to keep their performance goal attainment on track. It is a poor standard to determine funding standards based on a compilation of individual merit.

Where the price of an education is the proof of a good education, standards get tossed. It works both ways.

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5 Replies

  • Dennis Henry 6 months ago Jon, Look at the Kos own chart ...

  • Jon Awbrey 6 months ago Causation can be tricky in a cyclic...

  • Dennis Henry 6 months ago Those pickens were raised to an art...

Jon,

Look at the Kos own chart (It supports my contention) in light of the law of unintended consequences. In 1995 then President Clinton championed legislation intended to limit CEO and executive compensation. Behold the reality of what jealousy brings after that critical point in history.

By following the law executive compensation went through the roof, using stock options, parachutes, every incentive possible to bid for the best.

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Those pickens were raised to an art form by T. Boone. As a separate but causally related issue. when Cash compensation for exec's was limited by BC's bill the free market kicked into a bidding war. That's a fact.

It is the share holders that have the say, a bit of a conundrum when Mutual funds are holding huge percentages of a stock and PERS plans seek to maintain their percentages returns. Lots a lucrative smell to go around.

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I'm questioning your driver's motivation, and allegences. BTW, On some folk clothes are! Eek

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On the jobs bill, where are the jobs?
On income disparity, CEO incentive pay can be traced to a fix on income disparity by then President Clinton. OWS wants to fix it some more?
Once you fix income inequality, who will there be to do any work, and why would they want to?
On SSI and a widening scent of entitlement. If you want a Safety net then define the obligation. A business subsidy should not be an entitlement. Less Tax as subsidy?

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2 Replies

  • Jon Awbrey 6 months ago Re: “scent of entitlement” ? ...

  • Dennis Henry 6 months ago The stuff in your wallet has trace ...

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The stuff in your wallet has trace residue of cocaine and probably other recreational but illegal substances. Just to put a twist on your rhetorical list, I'll pass on you're offer! :)

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This story and others are why corporate tax revenues plummeted in 2009 to their lowest level in years (like, before WWII) - I mean "revenues" as in "cash received."

http://www.nytimes.com/2011/11/12/business/energy-environment/a-cornucopia-of-help-for-renewable-energy.html?_r=1&pagewanted=all

By all means, continue protesting.

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9 Replies

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 6 months ago Great article. OWS should be prote...

  • Dennis Henry 6 months ago Renewable and green energy jobs are...

  • Jon Awbrey 6 months ago Who needs a map? All they have t...

Great article. OWS should be protesting crony capitalism. Where's the source of crony capitalism? Washington DC. Yet, for some reason the protesters can't seem to find the place on a map.

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Renewable and green energy jobs are supposed to be the drivers of the "new" economy. The subsidies guaranteed that no real innovation would be forthcoming, no replacement for coal or NG or the gasoline engine. Diesel and bio-fuel hold more promise for large scale long term renewable or at least recyclable sources of energy, but even there that is on an individual house by house, block by block basis. I guess someone had to take that free money!

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They don't get the $$ issue. They are easily led by people telling them "whatever" because they know there's a problem. I have a good friend who has a very high IQ, and is very capable in her industry. She easily spots individual financial problems in local situations. She was firmly convinced that cutting the US military budget would solve all other financial problems and it was quite difficult to move her from that position. I told my daughter today how I'd noticed the plummeting revenues from corporations on the OMB 200 year budget summary and analysis. I said "The information is there, but few even look at it or comprehend." This has been 3 straight years of fire sale at the tax house for big companies - but it's "George Bush's fault."

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Dennis, you should look at Andy Kessler's writing for an idea about what all this cannibalization means. It's about snatching cash as quickly as possible before the whole well runs dry. If someone genuinely invents real renewable energy that's truly beneficial, then it will be like Carnegie steel, Standard oil, etc. - a real revolution and "gold rush."

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Duh. OWS IS protesting crony capitalism. The money trail starts at Wall St. , you dummy.

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OWS is a big fat happy slice of crony. Bit of irony, don't ya think?

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It would be funny if it wasn't so sad.

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Here's today's Hall of Fame (oops - I mean "Wall of Shame") http://biggovernment.com/whall/2011/11/16/80-of-green-energy-loans-went-to-obamas-top-donors/

At over $20 billion, the total given to Obama donors and bundlers and other assorted friends represents more than 15 percent of the total anemic corporate income tax paid nationwide during that year. So, they not only got free loan money, they also got huge tax breaks. And is it any wonder the huge suggestion was made to increase income tax on "millionaires and billionaires"? Oh, like the guys on this list? Fat chance.

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I would also note that it seems the more recent press on OWS has been focusing on the seedy underbelly of the movement; rapes, suicides, drug use, etc. . . It's going to get more and more difficult for the country to maintain interest when there are no central message or policy recommendations.

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The public believes that government debt causes unemployment (over the short term). They actually believe that deficit spending decreases employment...like it's a zero sum game or something. It's an odd and unshakable belief that's hard to fight. Fortunately, I think people are now fatigued by the deficit talk. OWS and the various self-inflicted wounds of the GOP presidential candidates have dominated the discussion over the last few weeks.

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4 Replies

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 6 months ago I think most people recognize that ...

  • Richard Headrick 6 months ago I'm not sure who believes gove...

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 6 months ago And the crazy high taxes that will ...

I think most people recognize that gov't debt isn't necessarily causing unemployment today. That being said, we also recognize that piling up trillions of dollars in debt year after year is a recipe for disaster. No country can continue to spend twice as much as it takes in for long. I think many of us have also come to the conclusion that gov't stimulus hasn't achieved the desired bang for the buck. In other words, the stimulus no doubt helped save some jobs (it'd be hard to dump a trillion into the economy w/o some benefit), but the marginal impv't wasn't worth adding another trillion to our huge debt. It seems it merely prolonged the tough decisions that need to be made, primarily at the state level.

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I'm not sure who believes government debt causes unemployment, it's paying back the debt that does it.

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And the crazy high taxes that will be needed to pay for our profligate spending.

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You know what they say..."Payback's a b....".

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Interesting perspective that I would suggest indicates a certain bias towards the Left. First we have the fact that we have a sitting President, and his Party, who recently controlled both houses of Congress, essentially attempting to present themselves as the opposition. Strange?
Then we have the spin regarding the conflation of support for certain policies with support for the OWS, when the pure strain is represented by the T-Party. Timeout.

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If the poorest among us had a yacht and 3000 sq ft house, would it matter if the wealthiest among us had 100 yachts and 20 houses? Why does the income inequality matter? Isn't it the quality of life that matters? In that regard, quality of life has clearly improved over the past few decades.

Moreover, there hasn't been any appreciable increase in income inequality over the past 15 years.

http://blog.american.com/2011/10/census-data-show-income-inequality-in-the-u-s-has-been-flat-since-1994/

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21 Replies

  • Monique Bakken 6 months ago Interesting point. ...

  • Jon Awbrey 6 months ago Since the poorest among us can'...

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 6 months ago Nice dodge Jon. I would expect not...

Interesting point.

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Nice dodge Jon. I would expect nothing less.

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Remember 3 kinds of lies? Lies, damn lies and statistics?

Your statistics lie Gary by looking at quarters of the population instead of the 99% and 1% where the problem really resides.

http://www.economist.com/blogs/dailychart/2011/10/income-inequality-america

The 1% can hide their increase because the group from 75% to 99% has actually lost ground when the top 1% gets removed from the calculation

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Gary, every chart & explanation I've seen on that same & related subjects has info that is broadly other than what you've posted; moreover, since your data is from AEI that makes it suspect. I would more likely trust it if it came from Stanford or WSJ or Wharton or Sloan or some other such origin.

Your first three sentences are fairly benign, except that that's not reality (i.e. quality of life). It's nasty out there for thousands ($22,350/yr for family of 4 = poverty = 15% USA). Moreover, 'quality of life' applies not only to home and diet, but to environment which makes virtually everything else possible. Hence there is a VERY serious dilemma with: "100 yachts and 20 houses" for one person/family, & demographics now of 10 billion.

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Other charts, Gary:

http://www.businessinsider.com/what-wall-street-protesters-are-so-angry-about-2011-10

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150921302665007&set=a.10150905038015007.744208.701765006&type=3

http://www.facebook.com/photo.php?fbid=10150926122045007&set=a.10150905038015007.744208.701765006&type=3

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Actually Darwin, the chart you cite doesn't indicate the lower percentiles have lost ground. They have continued to gain ground. I will acknowledge your point that the top 1% has done far better. But who cares? What difference does it make?

If Bill Gates, Steve Jobs and Warren Buffet all make billions does that make the rest of us poorer? Of course not.

Those top 1% also pay an inordinate percentage of the taxes; more than their percent of the total income pie would dictate.

As for George. quality of life has undeniably improved immeasurably for the poor and middle class over the past 40 years.

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/09/understanding-poverty-in-the-united-states-surprising-facts-about-americas-poor

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Gary, your "quality of life" variation over 40 years is still a very relative yardstick, and life itself - down at the poverty level, stinks. Literally and figuratively. Nor do I even want to imagine a family of 4 living on $50k/yr, much less $24k/yr. How can that be even condoned, or considered an "improvement"? Or ignored via the huge disparities and discrepancies now in the world today? Especially given the dilemmas we are ALL going to face, as a species, in this century (demographic pressures, biodiversity, etc.)?

Gary, you need to get your perceptions away from the tailored data and into the real world. It's different out on the sidewalk & in the city park.

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George, everything is relative. Yes, life at the poverty level stinks. It always has and always will, relatively speaking. If being poor didn't "stink" relative to being wealthy, why would anyone aspire to be wealthy? That being said, the poor live far better today than they did 40 yrs ago. Most have a/c, cars, computers, video games, cell phones, and cable tv. Virtually nobody in the country dies from starvation, or even goes hungry b/c of lack of funds. The poor in US have more living space than their middle income counterparts in Europe.

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/09/understanding-poverty-in-the-united-states-surprising-facts-about-americas-poor

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"How can that even be condoned?" What do you mean by this question? Are you suggesting we should have a minimum income? To each according to their needs, from each according to their abilities?

As for the "huge disparities", I am wondering whether your desire to reduce discrepancies in wealth crosses borders. Americans live far better than people in most of the world. Is that fair? Maybe we should reduce our standard of living so there isn't such a discrepancy. Would those in Somalia be better off if the US was less wealthy? Would a Chinese factory worker have a better life if there were fewer wealthy Americans?

The answer is obviously no. The same is here at home. The poor wouldn't be any better off if the rich simply had less.

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It seems to me that a system which degrades the inherent and successful human equation of familial relationships would also get the cause of poverty or even the definition of poverty wrong. Until a better stronger system is proven to work, single parent households ought to be discouraged.

It also comes as little surprise that the focus of OWS would fall on the perceived upper class instead of the bailout banks and corrupt political enablers.

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The chart only extends to 2007, what happened after that? Too difficult to chart. No doubt, that 1% line looks like flame out and the others a smoky entrail seeking Terra firma for a terra cotta coating. Can't glaze over it everyone is hurting, Some hurt all in one dingy, some have a choice of little row boats.

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Glad to see one of you lefties finally respond.

I guess that's where you and I differ. I thought Bill Gates ande Steve Jobs became billionaires because they offered products that made all of our lives better. Warren Buffet made billions because he invested in countless companies that went on to employ thousands of people.

None of these billionaires stole from the poor/middle class. They didn't use their wealth to destroy the rest of us. To the contrary, they made all of our lives better.

Are there some uber rich that use their wealth to influence politicians. Sure. Does that mean we just confiscate the wealth of the top .5%? Of course not.

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Gary, I must strenuously disagree, even though I think we both may share many of the same principles.

The sandbox that we all play in, so to speak, has parameters. It is not infinite. Those parameters are rapidly being pressurized (demographics) to the point of life debilitation. Now perhaps technology may come along and save the day (agriculture, energy, even global warming), but the specter of biodiversity loss is still there, and THAT is the ultimate foundation. Without biodiversity there is no us, and to suggest that everything is relative, that it basically doesn't matter how big our respective piles of sand might be, is simply no longer accurate.

"No one goes hungry" - that is absolutely false. Gary, what planet do you live on?

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Jon, that's a bunch of well worded nonsense. If Bill Gates no longer provided goods and services that the rest of us demanded, he wouldn't be raking in billions every year.

George, I live on planet Earth, where data and facts matter. Virtually nobody goes hungry here. In fact, we have a greater problem w/ obesity than starvation among the poor. Here's the data which I cited above: The Dep't of Ag collects data on household food security. In 2009, the survey showed:

96% of poor parents stated that their children were never hungry at any time during the year b/c they could not afford food.

Over the course of a year, 4 percent of poor persons become temporarily homeless.

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Cont'd: Other government surveys show that the average consumption of protein, vitamins, and minerals is virtually the same for poor and middle-class children and is well above recommended norms in most cases.

Only 6 percent of poor households are overcrowded. More than two-thirds have more than two rooms per person.

42 percent of poor households actually own their own homes.

Nearly three-fourths have a car or truck, and 31 percent have two or more cars or trucks

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/09/understanding-poverty-in-the-united-states-surprising-facts-about-americas-poor

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You're forgetting how cheap they come. Some of them come for a few bottles of wine, some dinner, maybe a golf foursome or box seats for their favorite sports team. I have it on good authority that the Senate majority leader (current) let himself be chewed out for an hour by an investment banking firm, then walked out proudly with his $10,000 contribution check. A lot of people can afford that.

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Gary - that's by the guy I have known for years who is basically a feminine hygiene appliance - where it goes off base is in the generalized statements, such as the vast majority of the poor live in homes that are in good repair. True? Hmn. What's vast majority? There is still a lot of substandard housing of many different types in many different areas - and it is occupied by poor people. However, the wide screen TV phenom? I've seen it myself, hundreds of times.

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10 Replies

  • George Schieck 6 months ago Jon, there you go again with your t...

  • George Schieck 6 months ago Also, Jon, keeping the safety net w...

  • Jon Awbrey 6 months ago Yes, the GOP is doing everything th...

Jon, there you go again with your tiresome bumper stickers that have absolutely no connection with anything in this thread, at least nothing that I've said.

"Privatizing" the safety net is NOT what I've been suggesting. In fact I very clearly said that the redesigned safety net is not to be private sector. Can you read, Jon? Can you extricate yourself from your bumper sticker enthralldom? You are worse than the tabloids, Jon, in the other direction. And THAT is another thing that is wrong with USA politics; you are more ideological, Jon, than the idiots in D.C. right now - and ideology in this context is not associated with accuracy, but rather with mindless drivel.

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Also, Jon, keeping the safety net where it is is absolutely no guarantee for its well being. Uncle Sam's budget is not a guarantee for anything, not with the kind of politics and expectations that are swirling around. That, if nothing else, should be obvious to everyone by now. Which is a serious problem.

It needs to be repaired and funded and depoliticized; it must not be a political football, which - right now - it is.

If you keep it where it is, then it's going to be weakened, maybe even gutted. Either that or Uncle Sam will have precious little relevancy - for anyone - in this century, and that would also be a travesty, arguably worse than a safety net without a net.

You should also take a few courses in international history.

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Jon, as I recall, the current safety net was designed and put into place by FDR, who I'm sure is one of your heroes (as he is for many).

It's not working. It must be redesigned and funded so that it does work. This is not GOP, it's not donkeys. It is sanity.

Can you be sane, Jon?

An interesting dilemma with the ad hominem fallacy is that sometimes it is not a fallacy...

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Yes, Jon, that is precisely accurate. However, "public insurance" is not what govt is all about, at least not the day-to-day actual management - perhaps as reinsurance, but not the actual service itself. FDR set up the program as it is now because he probably didn't see, or have, any other alternatives.

It needs to be divorced from politics.

Insurance needs to be insurance, not political insurance. But SS, now, is a political entity, & it should not be. It is more basic than that, more fundamental.

Hence my suggestion. Redesign it, means test it, whatever - make it work & fully fund it. Then protect it & take it away from the politicians. Doing so will protect both domestic requirements & also int'l flexibility. Necessary!

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I disagree, Jon. We have lived forever with Public Sector and Private Sector (and perhaps also non-profits/NFOs). Why does that preclude a third alternative? Why can there not be an evolving paradigm? There are some things that are competitive (prices at the store), some things that are governmental (interstate commerce, nat'l defense, infrastructure, education), & some things that are sacrosanct (quality of life for geezers, access to health care (provided there's a doctor or other medical services within transportation (or trons) distance)).

This third variable, or "sector" is not impossible. Bottom line, the safety net must cease to be a political football. The budget must also become realistic. My alternative provides for both.

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(cont)
We have been living, all of us, for so long in the Public/Private paradigm, & with the current format of the federal budget, that the prevailing assumption is that there are no other alternatives. But that is a mistake.

Similarly also for our judicial system & 30-yr mortgages; people here grow up with those (and other) structural elements and assume that the world, all of it, has the same possibilities or standards for rational dispute resolution and financial horizons. But that's not true, either.

My 'third position alternative' is not perfect, but it's a heck of a lot better than what we have right now. The safety net must be depoliticized & protected & solvent, yet that can not happen without a restructuring of the budget.

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If 49.1 million Americans live in poverty, aside from the ones that prefer it, I think we should seriously take a look at the public education system that obviously didn't prepare them very well to make it in the economic world.

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14 Replies

  • Thomas Repetti 6 months ago Considering Public education is amo...

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 6 months ago I don't disagree that our publ...

  • George Schieck 6 months ago Well said, Robb, except that others...

Considering Public education is among the first to be cannibalized to pay for tax cuts with significant resistance by many states to actually invest modernizing their education systems, there is a good reason why its failed so many.

We have an education system that is training our youth for jobs that no longer exist in this country or soon will not. We have an education that at best kind of prepares students for the last century, but very few parts of the country actually prepare their students for the 21st century.

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I don't disagree that our public education system isn't up to muster. However, it isn't for lack of funding. We spend more per pupil than every country in the world but one. Education spending has increased in real dollars more than 300% since the 70's, while academic achievement has essentially flatlined.

When you throw money into a broken system, you can't expect the results to change. The system needs some serious reforms. Unfortunately, the unions stand in opposition to nearly every attempt.

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Well said, Robb, except that others in this thread don't want to acknowledge that there is a problem with our public K-12 environment. Good luck.

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Absence of accountability.

Disagreement over goals.

Grade inflation/standard deflation

Theories over reality.

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Why do we, as Americans, both sides, continue to play the blame game and ignore the programs that have proven results in the K12 space? For example, 6 Traits (http://educationnorthwest.org/traits) has been deployed in numerous school districts and test scores rose. In talking with an educator friend of mine, when the district focused first on organization the district scores had a significant lift in all subject areas.

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I would lay blame less on unions and more on politics, particularly at the state and local levels.

1. The school system in many states are headed by people who have never been teachers, they have never taught and thus squander money on programs and initiatives that do nothing to prepare students for anything but standardized testing.

2. Parents are often impeding on their own children's education. they want a daycare, not an academic facility. They want their children to get good grades they don't deserve while protecting them from curriculum they don't like.

3. Unions do make it difficult by impeding on our ability to dump ineffective teachers, with that said I think their fault is often overstated by those opposed to organized labor.

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Thomas, I wholeheartedly agree that politics is the culprit. Political polarization has made the situation virtually unworkable, in my opinion. The union/non-union debate is the best example of politics impeding education.

Since we know there are programs that work, why is it that these programs are not highlighted/endorsed/promoted by the education community, and unions, to the non-education community?


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The solution begins in the classroom, Jon.

There are some excellent public high schools in my vicinity; their grads - top 30% - typically go to Ivy League, Stanford, Berkeley, Chicago, & Military Academies, then all the rest. And 1/3 of the students are bussed in from other areas around the city. It's excellent 'cause the students care as well as the teachers.

There are other schools where the conditions are astonishingly bad. Almost perverse, and those numbers - the "data" - is dragging all else down, relies heavily on social promotion, & contributes to USA's 15% functional literacy.

Those disruptive students, Jon - no one can touch those brats, literally - & that is a HUGE dilemma. Unions, etc., are all silent. Disgraceful!

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(cont)
And in order for the classroom to work, to function, there must be accountability.

The implied contract between Teacher and Teachee.

The teachers, with some exceptions, are not the primary dilemma. The students, however, can be - and many times are - absolutely unmanageable: arrogant, loud, disruptive, or worse. Yet there is no accountability; no one can touch those kids, literally or figuratively, and the classroom becomes dysfunctional. It's the families, Jon, the families and other "responsible" adults in their communities. That's where the biggest problem is. All else is fine tuning. Yet, again, no one can even mention this blatant reality, much less do anything about it. No backbone anywhere, including in this thread!!

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Those kids need to be failed, held back until they do the work, and if they drop out at age 18, after reaching only the 5th or 6th grade, then so be it. They can spend the rest of their lives catching up via Adult Ed. & the Jr. Colleges.

Conversely, if/when they do the work, then all efforts possible should be made to help them, work with them.

This reality and corresponding way to reach it is not rocket science; it's blatantly obvious that some of those kids need a good reality check, a good kick in the butt. Maybe eventually they'll - and especially their parents, their "responsible" adults in their communities - get the message.

All else is B.S., including the coddling and fear and bumper sticker mentality in this thread.

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Jeanne, I do not discount the success of initiatives such as the one you've mentioned. What I am calling attention to, however, are the locations - and they are quite real - where the classroom itself has broken down, where no program or initiative short of armed police (or perhaps "Freedom Writers") has a snowball's chance in h___ of even making it through the day. Those are the circumstances that drag down the performance stats, that generate social promotion, that create our functional literacy, yet which are also the same circumstances that no one is talking about. That is the foundation of any educational effort - teacher and teachee - and until students can be held accountable (all of them), then the system is broken.

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George, agree completely with the brokenness of many schools. There are also programs that have been effective in turning at risk schools around, as well. Some of the tougher challenges are well documented and one was made into a movie. More recently, the Irredelle-States school district was able to accomplish the perceived impossible.

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Their efforts are well documented in Running All of the Red Lights which can be purchased either at Amazon or ASQ - http://asq.org/quality-press/display-item/index.html?item=H1376&xvl=76093075.

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I think the key for Obama is to address both issues, income disparity and government bloat, then put forth a plan to resolve first one and then the other. Choosing which one to go after first is going to be crucial and is likely to be different for each party. This is where the GOP can get into trouble.

If the govt bloat is attacked before the income disparity, then its possible that the disparity issue cannot be addressed without "undoing" the bloat fix. That, of course, is what the GOP backers want dealt with more than the disparity problem. Unfortunately, the majority of Americans want the disparity problem resolved first and that is the one shot that Obama has.

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11 Replies

  • Tony O'Doherty 6 months ago Darwin, there’s a third problem a...

  • Darwin Long 6 months ago Tony, I would bet that if the incom...

  • Tony O'Doherty 6 months ago No argument with that, Darwin. As ...

Darwin, there’s a third problem and it is, of course, government income. I accept that for many it is considered to be a sub-set of the other two problems.
However there are aspects of government revenue that can and should be prominently included in any Obama planning as a separate heading. GOP candidates have raised tax issues, albeit with simplistic proposals. Norquist’s pledge has placed a tourniquet around the necks of 238 members of Congress, restricting blood to their brains – although there are reports of 7 recanting. The inequality of rates on different types of incomes needs constant airing. And so on.
In fact, if these issues came first (bottom up approach) maybe the other two become more tractable.

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Tony, I would bet that if the income disparity problem were to be resolved, that the economy would automatically be rebuilt in the same move and that the deficit spending would evaporate through the power of the increased economy.

If that turns out to be true (notice the disclaimer) then the "intrusive" government would either also disappear from notice or it could be addressed in a sane fashion by elimination of the most wasteful and/or corrupt segments first.

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No argument with that, Darwin.
As a former negotiator, however, I don't believe in surprises. I think coming to the table under the "income disparity" banner and not specifically having revenue and taxation included in the title without preconditions ties one hand behind your back for the immediate problem and cuts off both hands in terms of moving on to solve "bloat".
Isn't that the problem we're seeing now in a nutshell?

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And there Tony is the difference between trying to fix something and trying to score points.

I'm NOT a negotiator. I'm a guy who fixes things. I know that if I'm sitting in front of a sick computer with both hardware and software problems, I have to fix the hardware before I can go after the software problem. I also know that there is a high probability that fixing the hardware problem will eliminate the apparent software problem.

I'm sorry, I should know that logic has no place in government. Its not about fixing things, its about how do I leverage a congressional seat into a 7 figure job that I don't have to work at in just 4 years. That explains why I'll never be a successful politician.

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With regard to income inequality: If you could dramatically reduce the income/wealth of the richest 10% of Americans, knowing it would have no effect on the wealth/prosperity of the poor/middle class, would you do it? And if so, why?

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First I'm going to alter your question. I would change the percentage you mention from 10% to .5%

Having made that change, I will give you the answer you want. Yes I would decrease that wealth. I would do so because wealth and power are interchangeable, and such a small percentage of people should not be allowed to control that much power.

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You're right there, Darwin. There is the difference - I would never negotiate with a sick computer!
Now, obstinate opinionated people are another matter but, as the saying goes, horses for courses.

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And I'm trying to learn a new skill. Any idea how I will know when I'm succeeding? It seems obvious that changing minds is not the signpost I'm looking for.

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First step, Darwin, is to make sure that your mind is included amongst those willing to be changed. That starts the process off on a firm footing. Also, the more that is out in the open before negotiation starts, the more likely it will succeed.

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So I guess you would support simply confiscating wealth above a certain number? I guess nobody should be allowed to make say a billion dollars? What gives you, or gov't for that matter, the right?

How is the world worse off b/c Bill Gates makes billions of dollars? Of course the answer is that we are all better off. Far better off.

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"make sure that your mind is included amongst those willing to be changed"

Therein lies the rub. Through more than 5 decades of self examination and logical thought I've arrived at the opinions I hold by changing them far too many times to count. I don't think that I am unwilling to change my mind, but those opinions are well fortified by the route taken to get to them. Those fortifications are going to require extraordinary evidence, at least equivalent to historical proofs, to break down. I've seen no such evidence. Have you?

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Alex, your article belies its heading. As you rightly point out the apparent opportunities create internal conflicts within both parties as well as between them. This has been the case for some time now and I can’t see the election making much difference. I’ve been watching our local incumbent candidate and challengers and they are at a loss to come up with anything coherent other than “we’re not them”, “see what we’ve done already” and repetition of catchphrases that are supposed to represent policy but are actually just empty slogans. OWS’s storm won’t penetrate the corporate levies, will miss the mainland and dissipate over the Apathetic Ocean, no harm done to the status quo.

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1 Replies

  • Jon Awbrey 6 months ago “Apathetic Ocean” ! And they...

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"Both developments are likely to stir new debate over changes to Social Security, Medicare, and other programs that assist the poor"

Both Medicare and Social Security are regressive. Wealthier people tend to start working later (spend less time paying in) and live longer (spend more time receiving benefits).

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4 Replies

  • George Schieck 6 months ago That sentence, Jon, can mean almost...

  • George Schieck 6 months ago The budget restructuring I've ...

  • Jon Awbrey 6 months ago The social safety net will be prese...

That sentence, Jon, can mean almost anything under the sun. And you pride yourself for being a philosopher and logician? No. You are fanning flames of emotion while providing no meaningful suggestions or alternatives; it is a given that the budget as it now stands is going to look considerably different in a few years. And it won't matter who is in the White House.

The safety net must be protected and made solvent. Uncle Sam also needs discretion to respond to whatever events (domestic or int'l) as necessary. The suggestion I've provided allows for that. But your comments are bizarre and not even fit for smoke and mirrors; another universe, perhaps.

You are a wordsmith, Jon, and a panderer of emotion.

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The budget restructuring I've suggested may not be inexpensive. And if not, then it will never get past either the donkeys or the elephants unless it is restructured to remove the safety net from govt (and then the safety net will cease to be perceived as a "tax" burden). If people are contributing to their own retirement, as opposed to some perceived govt social plan, then they won't mind the cost (or will mind it less).

If the budget is not restructured, then the cost to repair it as needed will never be palatable, and either the safety net will be gored, or Uncle Sam will be tied to a strait jacket and unable to function; either of those two would be disastrous.

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That is precisely right, Jon. Congratulations for seeing the light.

And that preservation will only occur if it is redesigned so that it works, and funded so that it is solvent, and depoliticized so that it is no longer a football or perceived as a tax burden. Repairing and funding it will not be cheap, and the needed attention will not occur if it is left in its current guise.

Wake up, Jon.

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1 Replies

  • George Schieck 6 months ago No, Jon, this is hardly a pseudo an...

No, Jon, this is hardly a pseudo anything. Once again your continued platitudes are seriously derailing needed consideration.

The name is whatever is appropriate. Call it whatever you want, Jon.

Bottom line, the Safety Net must be protected, must be solvent, must be depoliticized (i.e. removed from govt budget). Uncle Sam can then get back to the business of governing.

This approach allows for needed redesign and funding without grumbling. Everyone needs a retirement solution, and this is where it would be. It is not a "tax" item.

Taxes would continue to go to Uncle Sam for governance whatever, and the govt budget is considerably smaller than it used to be.

If this approach is not used, the safety net will be gutted. Wrong!

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Here's another article on income inequality:

http://reason.com/archives/2011/11/07/the-facts-about-income-inequality

"What matters is not one’s position relative to the richest, but one’s absolute position and its improvement year to year. Studies demonstrate that for decades the time it takes the average worker to earn the money to buy any given consumer good has been shrinking. (And the goods are often of much better quality.)"

Here's another article on poverty in the US.

http://www.heritage.org/research/reports/2011/09/understanding-poverty-in-the-united-states-surprising-facts-about-americas-poor

The poor live far better today than they did 40 yrs ago. Not even close.

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Furthermore:
You can't collect enough $ from the rich and corporations to pay for our spending:

http://townhall.com/columnists/walterewilliams/2011/04/13/eat_the_rich/page/full/

If you took every cent from those making over $250K, you would get $1.4 trillion. We spent $3.7 trillion last year.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=661pi6K-8WQ

As for the entitlements, every reasonable person (including Obama) has come to the conclusion that Medicare is currently unsustainable. Social Security is now drawing less than it pays out. We can continue to stick our heads in the sand, but in the end, the bills will come due. Just ask Greece and Italy.

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A few points: Giving the total number living in poverty is misleading. We also have more people, so it's no surprise that the raw number has risen. We are at 15.1% poverty, roughly in line with the rate for the past 50 years.
http://articles.businessinsider.com/2010-09-16/wall_street/30094733_1_poverty-census-highest-level

The "explosion in income inequality" is also a myth:
http://blog.american.com/2011/10/census-data-show-income-inequality-in-the-u-s-has-been-flat-since-1994/

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The "size" of government can be altered significantly by removing entitlements from the federal budget.

They should be redesigned, perhaps with means testing, funded so they are stable, then protected - absolutely - and depoliticized by being parked somewhere outside of government. Somewhere between the private and public sectors.

That will reduce the size of government (by over half), and Uncle Sam can then turn his attention to other matters as needed.

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17 Replies

  • Susan Kraykowski 6 months ago This may, indeed, be one of the ans...

  • Gary W. Patterson, Jr. 6 months ago Actually, people don't get bac...

  • Jon Awbrey 6 months ago Susan, Susan, Susan ... Please t...

This may, indeed, be one of the answers, George. I wish, however, that we could find a term to use other than "entitlements." I recognize that we do need a convenient shorthand term to indicate the programs into which WE PAY ALL OUR WORKING LIVES and from which we then expect benefits once we retire or become disabled. The far righties, like Gary, above, have twisted the term to make it sound as though people who expect to collect on "entitlements" are welfare cheats and freeloaders who are taking taxpayers' money. When you go into a meeting of angry TeaPartiers who are "for cutting entitlements" and explain that what they really want is to abolish Medicare and Social Security, all of a sudden they're not so sure about that.

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Actually, people don't get back what they put in. Some people get a lot more, some people a lot less. In either case, the current path is unsustainable. We simply can't afford the benefits that were promised. Cutting payroll taxes, as Obama is seeking, only further contributes to the problem; another $100+ billion in lost revenue to Social Security.

People like Susan just want to stick their head in the sand and pretend that we can continue to spend twice as much as we take in year after year, with no consequence. One would think the lessons of Greece and Italy would be fair warning. In fact, several states are already on that path as we speak including Illinois and California. A large county in AL just declared bankruptcy this wk.

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Gary & Susan, if I may have another try at this:

Agree, Susan - I would prefer to use another term than "entitlements." I used it here as a customary reference and due to character limitations.

Gary: agree also. My suggestion is redesign SS (and rest of the Safety Net). Bottom line intent to ensure everyone has retirement source or plan, as they should. Ideally, every child from birth has his/her account started, & fed by parent/guardian until adulthood, then it reverts to the owner. Used only for retirement (or education, home, medical). SS redesigned to ensure that everyone has a retirement; for those that do not, then FICA deduction. Money in = money out. Protected, removed from govt. budget. Tweaked as necessary.

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Govt budget then reverts to what is properly govt concerns (defense, R&D, Foreign Aid, National infrastructure, Nat'l Parks, and so on).

Uncle Sam then has discretionary flexibility.

With removal of safety net from budget, all of that becomes something other than part of a "tax burden", and is instead personalized so that we do not mind its maintenance (i.e. funding it). It is tweaked as needed (annually? every 6 mths?) to maintain even cash flow; demographics, actuarial tables, employment all factor into those periodic adjustments. Politicians are strictly forbidden from going anywhere near it.

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George, I agree with your concept. I would point out however that you have two conflicting statements in your two above posts. They are:

"Protected, removed from govt. budget. Tweaked as necessary. "
and
"Politicians are strictly forbidden from going anywhere near it. "

If it gets "tweaked as necessary" then you are allowing politicians to "go anywhere near it"

I don't have an answer for this, but I feel a need to point it out. Its the only hole I can find in your plan right now.

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Jon: I THOUGHT I was pointing out the "semantic distortions of the tightie righties." I certainly got buzzed by one of 'em.

I don't think George is too far off the track and we have the technology; we can rebuild him.

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Tweaked, Darwin, yes, but not by politicians. When this redesigned & fully functional safety net is 'parked' somewhere between the private & public sectors, its parking space will include its 'minders', or those persons whose job will be to monitor & tweak the safety net & perform those management tasks associated with its operation.

These people are not politicians, nor are they civil servants. They are persons who understand numbers, & who are beholden to everyone (not just to the politicians). Their annual statements are posted so virtually everyone has direct access.

The weak link here, I think, is the initial establishment of this sacred 'net' - by legislation or amendment. Also perhaps how the 'minders' are hired/fired.

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(cont)
The job itself of the 'minders' will be among the most boring on the planet - constant tweaking amongst cash flow, actuarial tables, demographics, employment stats...

But while perhaps boring it will also be one of the most important on the planet.

And while there is a weak link in this process, or point of (initial) contact between its parking space and govt, the overall result is safer and better and more solvent than any other alternative. Depoliticization is important, I think. The politicians may not like giving up that control (or power), which is all the more reason why it should be done.

That's what I've been thinking. Your thoughts?

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I am already built, thank you. And I wouldn't allow Jon to come anywhere near me...

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George, there are people who wouldn't think your job to be all that boring. They currently manage hedge funds. Would you trust any of these people to manage that kind of money? If so, how do you keep tabs on them? Who watches the watchers?

As a concept it looks great on paper, but your "weak links" create big enough holes to sink it.

I will challenge you now to plug those holes or revamp your proposal to resolve these problems. And lest you think I'm trying to torpedo you, I'm REALLY interested in a solid resolution because I know that something MUST be done because the clowns in Washington and the thieves on Wall St. are currently in collusion to acquire the SS Trust fund.

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Darwin, the hedge fund types and their cohorts are private sector. My safety net parking space is not private sector; it is hallowed ground. That is the difference. Currently in USA we have nothing like that, anywhere, that I know of. Perhaps NGOs and/or non-profits might come close, but that is another weak analogy.

There will be weak links no matter how the safety net is approached, Darwin, including its current format - which is exceptionally dangerous: it's a big target, now, for everybody. I really think that if it is redesigned to be as apolitical as possible - with legal sanctions to that effect - and also functional & healthy, then the result will be much more solvent and secure than its current guise.

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Also, Darwin, the hedge fund types - by definition - are always pushing, pushing, to see what they can get away with, to maximize their return, to beat the other guy, to be smarter and more productive, to be first with the best, etc.. Competition.

Whereas, my safety net 'minders' will have a sacred duty not to change anything, but rather just to keep it lubricated (i.e. funded, tweaked) and operating with a smooth low background hum. Different culture, mindset, purpose, than those hedge fund types.

The only alternative, that I can see, is to let the politicians keep it. Which is infinitely worse.

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I'm not saying you're wrong George, its the best idea I've heard, but if its going to work you need to get all the details fleshed out.

How about you put up an article on it?

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Darwin, thank you. I'd love to do that. But for the next month or so I need to focus on academics, or I'm going to get my own butt kicked here in school. I'm already late, and these fascinating PolicyMic pages/entries will have to be on the back burner for a while...

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